Can I succeed with or without a mentor?

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to today's episode.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is a pleasure to be speaking with you today.

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Thank you for tuning in.

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So I want to let you know that our next cohort of coaching clients begins August 28th, and

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if you want more information, sign up on our podcast website, www.clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.

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Sign up, and we'll give you more information about signing up for our next cohort beginning

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August 28th.

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And if you miss it, we have another cohort beginning November 20th, so sign up to get

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on the wait list.

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I am excited about today's episode because we're going to be talking about something

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that came up with yesterday's podcast episode.

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So yes, I said that you can succeed as a clinician scientist with or without a mentor.

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And so there was an outcry from two groups of people.

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There was the outcry from the mentors who were like, what are you kidding?

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Nobody succeeds without a mentor.

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How dare you even say that?

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And then on the part of the trainees and young faculty, it was like, are you kidding me?

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I can succeed without a mentor?

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Tell me more.

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So I'm here to speak to two groups of people today.

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One, the group that feels like you can never succeed without a mentor, and second to the

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group that is excited to find out that you might be able to.

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And I am excited to just kind of dispel some myths around mentoring today.

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So I want to tell you about a statistic that I learned reading a recent article.

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It's a systematic review from 2006, and this is a systematic review in JAMA that evaluated

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mentoring in academic medicine.

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And what this article found is that in some fields, less than 20% of faculty members had

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a mentor.

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Less than 20% of faculty members had a mentor, and less than 50% of medical students had

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a mentor.

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When they asked women compared to men, women felt that they had less access to mentoring

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compared to the men.

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And this was a big deal because mentoring was reported to have an important influence

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on personal development, career guidance, career choice, and research productivity.

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So if mentoring is so important for our advancement as clinician scientists, then what is going

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on?

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Is it that less than 20% of people in some fields report that they have access to mentoring?

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And what is this mentoring crisis that's going on?

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And does it mean that if there's no mentor, you can't succeed?

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And so those are some of the myths that I do want to talk about, and I'll talk about

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three myths related to mentoring.

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Number one is the myth that I don't have a mentor.

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Okay.

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Let's talk about this.

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Nobody in life can succeed by themselves.

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How do we know this?

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Well, it took more than one person to bring you into this world.

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Even if your mom was megadula or midwife or an obstetrician gynecologist, I want to bet

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that the chances are she did not birth you by herself in a corner where nobody was looking.

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It takes at least two people to bring one person into this world.

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And when you go back to your childhood, you recognize that you had many, many people,

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including adults and your peers, contribute to your personal development.

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When you look back over the course of your medical training as a person who got into

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medical school, you had mentors who helped you succeed.

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As someone who transitioned to residency, really you had mentors to succeed in that

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process.

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And as someone who transitioned to fellowship, if you did fellowship, you had mentors to

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help you succeed in that process.

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So what happened?

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What happened when people finally transitioned to faculty jobs and then less than 20% of

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people in some fields say, I don't have a mentor?

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What's going on?

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What is this mentor that is missing in people's lives?

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And so the myth that I do want to dispel about mentoring today is that when you say, I don't

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have a mentor, it really is a sign that there's a specific kind of mentoring you feel that

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you're missing, but you don't get to say, I don't have a mentor because you know what

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everybody succeeds because of mentors.

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Well, what is a mentor?

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Are we saying the same thing when we're talking about mentoring?

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Well, let me define mentoring as I'm thinking about it right now, not the formal definition

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because I didn't look it up formally.

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But I look at a mentor as someone who's done something that you want to do.

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They've gone ahead of you and they already have knowledge that you don't have.

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And so the mentor gives you access to the knowledge that they have so that you can accomplish

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what they've accomplished.

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For example, someone who, let's use an example outside of academic medicine.

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So if someone has succeeded in, actually let's stay with academic medicine.

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Somebody has succeeded in publishing a research manuscript.

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They have knowledge on how to take a manuscript from idea to manuscript to submitted and to

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accepted for publication.

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That is a very specific skill.

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Now that person is a mentor to somebody who's never done that before because they're able

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to show them, okay, this is how you take your concept and you develop the manuscript.

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This is how after developing the manuscript, you research the journals to which you're

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going to submit this manuscript.

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And this is how after you've researched the journals, you submit to one that makes sense.

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Then when they send you back the revisions, this is what you do.

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Or if they reject you, this is what you do.

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And on and on and on until the manuscript is finally published.

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That is a mentor that is able to deliver to you a specific skill set that they already

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have.

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Okay.

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So when people say, I don't have a mentor, they're saying, I don't have a specific type

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of mentor and relationship that I feel is significant to my career advancement.

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But they're not saying I don't have a mentor because clearly if they've succeeded as much

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as they have, someone's been showing them the ropes.

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And so I first of all want to dispel the myth that I don't have a mentor because it's simply

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not true.

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Now when people say I don't have a mentor, what they're really saying is that I don't

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have a research mentor, therefore I can't succeed.

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We're going to talk a little bit about that shortly.

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But I do want to let you know that if you've succeeded ever in life, it's because you have

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a network of mentors who've helped you succeed.

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And so when people say I don't have a mentor, what they're looking for is the guru mentor,

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the one mentor in whom all of life consists.

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And to be honest, people don't really even believe in the guru mentor concept.

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People know that there are different facets of themselves, that one person can't meet

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all of that.

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Yet when we say I don't have a mentor, what we're saying is that we're looking for the

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one mother figure in whom all skill, all knowledge, all wisdom is contained.

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So the one person who's going to help me become a clinician scientist, the one person who's

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going to show me how to write manuscripts and shepherd it through the publication process,

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the one person who's going to guide my career development, the one person who's going to

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sponsor me throughout the institution, the one person I can come to when my life explodes,

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the one person I can come to when I need on and on and on it goes.

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Is there really such a person?

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Would you even want that kind of person, the one person in charge of your life?

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There isn't such a human.

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But the problem is that in academic medicine, we've made this myth that there is only one

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person that helps you succeed.

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And I'm here to talk about, I'm here to dispel that myth.

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And I'm also here to talk about different types of mentoring relationships that you

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need to be successful.

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So myth number one is I don't have a mentor.

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It's not true.

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I have many mentors and no, most people don't have the guru mentor as demonstrated in that

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article that tells us that less than 20% of faculty in some fields feel like they have

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a mentor.

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What's happening to this 80% of faculty is that they have a specific mentoring need that

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they recognize that they don't have.

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When you recognize that you don't have something, do you know what you do?

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You go get it.

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And this is one of the challenges of this myth of the one guru mentor, because if you

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can't find that one guru mentor, some people feel like their academic life is over.

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And it's one of the reasons why the podcast exists is because we want to help dispel these

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myths.

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There are many skills you need to succeed as a clinician scientist, super many, many,

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many, many skills.

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And to think that these skills can be received, can be acquired from one person is a little

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bit of a disservice to the field.

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And it does a disservice to faculty members who otherwise are capable of succeeding with

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just the right direction.

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Okay, so myth number one, don't have a mentor.

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If you've succeeded thus far, you've succeeded because you have a network of mentors.

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And today I want to show you that network that you have.

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Okay, myth number two is I need to find the one.

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Now this is really silly.

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And I'll tell you that this idea comes to me from Carrie Ann Rockmore of National Center

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for Faculty Development and Diversity Fame.

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And Carrie Ann Rockmore talks about the guru mentor.

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And I love the figure she shows where it's like one guru sitting meditating in the middle,

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and then all arrows leading to this one guru mentor.

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And the truth is, the reality is, and it seems laughable now when you really think about

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it, it's like, okay, what happens if you have problems with your teenager at home?

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What do you talk to?

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Is that going to be your one guru mentor?

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What if you're having troubles in your relationship?

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Who does that go to?

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Is it your one guru mentor?

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Okay, I can recognize if you're having trouble in your research, perhaps this one guru mentor,

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as people like to think of this one person as the guru, maybe that one guru mentor can

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help you.

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Every mentor has their skills.

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And we'll talk a little bit about the different mentoring relationships that you need to establish.

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But I think the examples I bring up, the who do you go to when you have trouble with your

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partner?

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Who do you go to when you have trouble with your teenager?

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Okay, it's not going to be the one guru mentor.

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And if it is, we've got to talk because it's not a healthy relationship.

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And really, it's a burden to put on one person to be the one person on whom all of this rests.

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And so I think I want to share with you that there is not one person for you.

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There's never been one person for you in all of life.

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Even if in life, you are so fortunate to have found the one partner who's going to totally

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like, you know, rock your world, congratulations to you.

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That's not most people's experience.

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Most people have a partner that's amazing, and they still need partners at work.

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And they still need partners in life.

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And they still need girlfriends or boyfriends, whatever it is.

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There is not one person who's human, who can satisfy all your needs.

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It's never been true in any part of your life, and it won't be true for you in your journey

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to become a clinician scientist.

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I just want to tell you that there is not one guru mentor.

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And if that's the one mentor that you feel like you're lacking and because of that you

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can't succeed, that's why I'm telling you that you can succeed with or without a mentor.

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Okay, the one guru mentor is not needed.

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Mentoring networks definitely need it.

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Okay.

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The third myth is that nobody succeeds without a mentor.

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And that's a myth as well because again, everybody has mentors.

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You may not have a mentor in the specific area.

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That's one of the reasons why it's so important for us to recognize what is the area in which

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you lack mentoring.

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Because if you can't find a mentor in a specific area, guess what you do?

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You go find one.

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If you're looking for the one guru that's going to satisfy all your needs forever and

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ever amen, of course you're not going to find that.

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You're not going to find that even if people establish research dating websites where you

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can find your mentor for a fee.

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You're not going to find that.

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But if you say this is the specific skill that I need, this is a specific area in which

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I need mentoring, it liberates you to go find that mentor.

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And so it is a myth to say nobody succeeds without a mentor because it's not even a true

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statement.

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It's like what kind of mentor are you talking about?

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Nobody succeeds in what?

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That's one of the things that I'm here to dispel is just to say there's not one mentor.

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You are a multifaceted person.

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Up until now you succeeded with the help of many people.

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That will be your story throughout your life.

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Stop looking for one person who's going to change your story.

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Okay.

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So maybe now you're like, okay, okay, okay.

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So you say nobody succeeds with it.

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Nobody needs a mentor, but everybody needs a mentoring network.

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What are you talking about?

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Okay.

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I will talk to you about seven mentoring relationships you need to cultivate as a clinician scientist.

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Seven mentoring relationships you need to cultivate as a clinician scientist.

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And in listing all of this, I hope that you get a picture of how full your life really

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is, how multifaceted you are, and how much help you really need that hopefully is not

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coming from one person.

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Okay.

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Mentor number one is a research mentor.

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Okay.

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So if you're one person that mostly people are referring to when they say, I need a mentor,

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I don't have a mentor, what does the research mentor give you?

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I want to first of all say that a research mentor is not a career mentor.

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And the challenge is that people conflate the two.

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They think their research mentor has to be their career mentor.

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And I will tell you that, you know, I've kind of given number two away.

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Number two is the career mentor, but I'm going to focus right now on the research mentor.

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What does the research mentor give you?

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Well the research mentor really helps you with research design, methodology, and interpreting

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research findings.

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Doing research is a skill.

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Doing research in a specific area is a skill.

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And depending on the work you do, there's a specific set of methodologies that are needed

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to succeed in that area.

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Now if you're at the bench, there's specific set of assays you need to be able to run,

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or maybe you develop assays.

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Maybe there are specific instruments that you need to be able to use.

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There's someone who already knows how to do that.

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And even within that research mentor is a team of people who have access to these different

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skills.

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For example, let's say you're in the basic science lab.

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Your big mentor is a big mentor, but when it comes to the hands-on, here's how to do this

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experiment, it is less likely, especially the bigger your lab is, that your one big mentor

259
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is going to come and show you how to do it.

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What's more likely is that there's a graduate student in the lab who's going to show you

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the ropes.

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They're like, oh, I've been doing this research methodology.

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I'll show you how to do it.

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And so the research skills you need can be acquired from one person, but more likely they're

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actually acquired from multiple people.

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What the research mentor helps you do is just think about how do we design this research

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project?

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How do we take this one big, hairy, audacious question and turn it into an actionable project

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that you can actually work on?

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And so the research mentor is really about the person who helps you with research design

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methodology.

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And then when you get your results, what do you do with it?

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What does it mean?

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You're like, oh, I got these results.

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How do we interpret it?

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That's what research mentors do.

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And here's the thing.

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If you are an MD, your research mentor doesn't have to be an MD.

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Many MDs don't get research training.

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And so here we are, all of us clamoring for the one MD in our program who has research

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training.

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And the vendor that person says, no, I can't help you, right?

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They're overwhelmed.

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They've got a lot of people to care for.

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But do you know what you have at your institution?

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You've got thousands of PhDs.

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For every MD with research training, you've probably got at least 100 PhDs at your institution

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who have research training that's equal to or better than your MD researcher.

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And what does that mean?

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That means that when you're looking for research mentorship, look beyond your MD faculty.

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Look beyond your division.

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Look beyond your department.

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Hey, look beyond your institution.

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And so yes, when you think about applying for career development awards, people are

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saying, who's your one mentor?

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Throughout medicine, there's this culture of who's your one mentor.

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And it's fine.

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What they're really saying is who's primary?

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Who's primary in your research?

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Because it kind of depends.

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Who's primary in your career?

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We'll talk about a career mentor next.

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If a research mentor has very specific tools that they are equipping you with, and that's

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really focused on research design, research methodology, and how to interpret findings.

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Does this research mentor have to be the one to show you how to shepherd a manuscript through

306
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publication?

307
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Not necessarily.

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Does this research mentor have to be the one to show you how to succeed in research funding?

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No.

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And so we conflate one person, and we ask them to have all these skills, but they don't

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have to.

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There are many PhD researchers who are excellent in methodology, but don't necessarily have

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the success in grant funding that you'd like to see.

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And so what you want to do is be very clear about what you get from a research mentor,

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and don't ask them to give you everything.

316
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It's great when they can give you more than one thing, but if they can't, don't give

317
00:19:07,180 --> 00:19:10,500
up and say, I don't have a mentor, and therefore I quit.

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Identify the skills you have, so that you understand what your research mentor should

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be able to give you, and what you don't get from your research mentor.

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I'm spending a lot on this because the research mentor, I think, is the one mentor we feel

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like should give us everything.

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People get disappointed when they're like, well, my research mentor is a jerk.

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I can't survive under this person.

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I want you to recognize what your research mentor can give you, and what your research

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mentor cannot give you.

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Many people who succeed in research are not very nice people.

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In fact, somehow to succeed, they become really mean, or they become really aggressive, or

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maybe they're mean to younger people.

329
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They're still really good at their research methodology.

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They're so good.

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Can you say, no matter what kind of person this one is, I'm going to get what I need

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in terms of research design, research methodology, in terms of interpreting my findings, and

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then have somebody else do the rest?

334
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Could we do that?

335
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I feel like we'd have healthier communities if we could just ask our research mentor to

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just do research for us, and then find other mentors in other areas.

337
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Okay, I've spent a lot of time on that one.

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Number two is a career mentor.

339
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Okay, if you're going to succeed, you do need people to help you, and you don't need one.

340
00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:20,860
You need many people, because there are many career paths in academic medicine.

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That includes research leadership.

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So, yes, there are the people who've only done research leadership as their primary

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thing in the academy, but more often than not, people are research leaders and their

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research leaders and their clinicians, their research leaders and their administrators.

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Maybe they've made the transition from research leader to administrator.

346
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So many career paths in medicine.

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And so you do need career mentors, but you don't need just one.

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The one career mentor can only show you their career path in academic medicine, and you

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need to know about different career paths in academic medicine so you can make an informed

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decision about the kind of career you're building.

351
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And so, yes, you need career mentors, and your research mentor doesn't have to be a

352
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career mentor.

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Your career mentor doesn't have to be a research mentor.

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So I would just argue with you that at a minimum in your success as an academic physician,

355
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you need at least two mentors.

356
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One to show you research stuff, and the other person to help you lead in your career.

357
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But you don't just need two.

358
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You need actually multiple people, because you need more than one thing for more than

359
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one person.

360
00:21:26,860 --> 00:21:30,480
Okay, so the second group of mentors is the career mentors.

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They give you access to career development.

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At least they tell you about things they've participated in.

363
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They can give you wisdom as to what types of things you should be thinking about, depending

364
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on the kind of career that you're trying to develop.

365
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So definitely make sure that you have in your mentoring network a career development mentor.

366
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Another group of mentors you should have are peer and near peer mentors.

367
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What does that mean?

368
00:21:54,420 --> 00:21:55,580
Okay, let's use an example.

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00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:59,780
Well, you know what peer mentoring means, but I just want to talk about the importance

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of it relative to other things you've done in your life.

371
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So if you're an academic physician, at some point you did medical school.

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And when you were going through the medical school admissions process, you didn't even

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if you knew like the dean of your medical school, that's not the person you call, hey,

374
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Dean, how do I get into med school?

375
00:22:15,820 --> 00:22:17,980
Like, how do I study for the MCAT?

376
00:22:17,980 --> 00:22:20,060
They're so far from it, they can't help you.

377
00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:21,060
And so what do you do?

378
00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:24,660
You ask someone who just took the MCAT, you're like, hey, I need to take the MCAT.

379
00:22:24,660 --> 00:22:26,460
And how do you how do you study for it?

380
00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:27,460
Right?

381
00:22:27,460 --> 00:22:30,040
That person did it three months ago, that person did it a year ago.

382
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,040
They can help you.

383
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,980
But the person who did it seven years ago, they can help you less.

384
00:22:33,980 --> 00:22:37,740
The person who did it 18 years ago, definitely, definitely they can't help you.

385
00:22:37,740 --> 00:22:39,780
It's a new test probably, right?

386
00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:45,380
So you have peer mentors, people who've done who are in kind of the same career stage as

387
00:22:45,380 --> 00:22:47,220
you, who can really help you.

388
00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:51,200
They're like, oh, yeah, I just onboarded a new research technician last week.

389
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,660
Let me show you what I did.

390
00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:54,500
That person is a mentor to you.

391
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:55,820
And then what about near peer mentors?

392
00:22:55,820 --> 00:22:59,620
A near peer mentor is someone who's maybe a year ahead, or two years ahead.

393
00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:02,940
Maybe you're a brand new faculty member at an institution and you have no idea where

394
00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:04,580
anything is.

395
00:23:04,580 --> 00:23:07,740
Your tendency is to run to your research mentor and say, show me the ropes.

396
00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:11,460
And to be honest, that person has been around the institution for so long, they forgot what

397
00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:14,260
it feels like to not know anybody at the institution.

398
00:23:14,260 --> 00:23:18,780
But for someone who's like only been at the institution for a year or two, they can say,

399
00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:23,340
oh, this is the listserv you need to get on to have access to all the funding opportunities

400
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:26,140
are coming through, because they just did that.

401
00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:30,260
And so if you don't have peer mentors, if you don't have near peer mentors, there's

402
00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:34,260
some big gaps you're going to have in your trajectory.

403
00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:36,940
And the reality is, of course, you have peer mentors.

404
00:23:36,940 --> 00:23:41,220
You've had peer mentors throughout your journey to become an academic physician.

405
00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:42,820
And yes, you have peer mentors today.

406
00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:48,020
I mean, at the minimum, you have people who came in at the same time as you at your institution.

407
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:51,300
You probably met them in orientation, or at least you have people who are like a year

408
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:55,180
or two ahead of you, because institutions are, they always tend to be hiring.

409
00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:59,660
And they may not be hiring your division or your department, but they're hiring elsewhere.

410
00:23:59,660 --> 00:24:04,060
And so you have access to peers, you have access to near peers, and you actually need

411
00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:08,020
them to succeed, because there are things they can give you that your senior mentors

412
00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:09,020
can't.

413
00:24:09,020 --> 00:24:10,020
OK.

414
00:24:10,020 --> 00:24:14,660
The fourth group of mentors that you need are skill specific mentors.

415
00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:18,580
What is a skill specific mentor that kind of I think is intuitive?

416
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:22,980
You have never written a grant to this particular organization.

417
00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:26,100
Let's say the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

418
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:29,940
They have a request for proposals that has just been released.

419
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:34,580
And you've never written a proposal to this particular organization before.

420
00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:35,580
OK.

421
00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:37,460
You have a specific skill that you're looking for.

422
00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:38,460
What do you do?

423
00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:40,140
Do you go find your research mentor?

424
00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:41,240
You could.

425
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,680
What if you found the person who just submitted for that award and was successful?

426
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,160
That's a very specific skill that they can give you, is applying to this very specific

427
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,160
award.

428
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,160
OK.

429
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,160
I'm talking about grant writing now.

430
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,540
What about the specific skill?

431
00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:58,540
Let's say you want to learn to do flow cytometry.

432
00:24:58,540 --> 00:25:02,460
You could ask your research mentor who learned flow cytometry maybe 30 years ago.

433
00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:05,340
And to be honest, they don't do any of their own flow cytometry now.

434
00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:10,700
Or you could ask the person, even the research tech, who's like, hey, can you show me how

435
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:12,660
to do this flow cytometry?

436
00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:15,220
It's a very specific skill that you're looking for.

437
00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:16,900
And somebody can show you that.

438
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:18,340
Let's use one more example.

439
00:25:18,340 --> 00:25:19,340
You're writing a manuscript.

440
00:25:19,340 --> 00:25:21,620
You've never developed a manuscript.

441
00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:23,420
You've never submitted a manuscript.

442
00:25:23,420 --> 00:25:24,420
That's OK.

443
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:25,420
Somebody else has done it.

444
00:25:25,420 --> 00:25:27,460
You could go to your research mentor.

445
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:32,100
Or you could find the person in your network who just did that.

446
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:35,380
Or you could find a program that teaches you how to write manuscripts.

447
00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:39,940
So if there's a very specific skill that you need, somebody has it.

448
00:25:39,940 --> 00:25:44,340
And you can find a skill-specific mentor to show you how to do that.

449
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:45,340
OK.

450
00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:49,300
The fifth type of mentor is an institutional mentor.

451
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:50,660
Now let me tell you about institutions.

452
00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:55,940
They have been around longer, usually, than you've been alive.

453
00:25:55,940 --> 00:25:56,940
You may be in a young institution.

454
00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:59,860
But for the most part, institutions are old.

455
00:25:59,860 --> 00:26:02,580
They have layers.

456
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:05,420
And that's why there are people who have institutional memory.

457
00:26:05,420 --> 00:26:06,420
They know.

458
00:26:06,420 --> 00:26:09,940
They know who you go to when you need x, y, z.

459
00:26:09,940 --> 00:26:17,580
They know why the academic and promotion tenure package was set up a certain way.

460
00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:22,260
They know about APT, that's academic promotions and tenure.

461
00:26:22,260 --> 00:26:24,020
They know about these things.

462
00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:28,540
You need somebody who has that kind of institutional memory, who's been around a long time, that

463
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:29,780
can help you navigate.

464
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:35,540
So when you say, wow, I can't get my project through the IRB, why is that?

465
00:26:35,540 --> 00:26:39,460
There's somebody who's kind of been around long enough that they have access to the person

466
00:26:39,460 --> 00:26:44,700
who has access to the person who has access to the person who has the IRB knowledge.

467
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:46,500
Somebody knows what you need.

468
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:49,740
And the longer they've been at the institution, the more they know.

469
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:53,020
And so some people will say, well, my research mentor just arrived.

470
00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:55,140
And they don't know, so I don't know.

471
00:26:55,140 --> 00:26:57,540
Who else can show you?

472
00:26:57,540 --> 00:26:58,540
Who else can tell you?

473
00:26:58,540 --> 00:27:03,020
There are people around your institution who've been around a long time and are so happy,

474
00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:08,940
so happy to offload the burden of the memory they have on someone who could use it.

475
00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:11,260
They're like, thank you so much for asking me.

476
00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:12,420
Thank you so much.

477
00:27:12,420 --> 00:27:15,700
I've been storing this knowledge in my head for years and years, waiting for someone like

478
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,500
you just to come and ask me about it.

479
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:24,420
So make use of people who've been around a long time and just shortcut the journey.

480
00:27:24,420 --> 00:27:25,420
Don't struggle.

481
00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:28,980
Don't struggle with your one mentor, your one research mentor who doesn't know, who

482
00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:29,980
hasn't been here long enough.

483
00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:34,780
Find somebody who can give you information that helps you move forward faster.

484
00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:37,420
OK, that was number five.

485
00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:41,540
Number six, number six is an external mentor.

486
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:43,300
Your institution is so awesome.

487
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:47,140
It's the greatest thing that ever happened to the world since sliced bread.

488
00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:49,900
Your institution is just one institution.

489
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:54,860
Academic medicine has a culture that actually transcends institutions.

490
00:27:54,860 --> 00:28:00,100
The variation of how it's practiced or how the culture is manifest does vary from institution

491
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:01,100
to institution.

492
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:07,900
But the big things, what it takes to be promoted, what it takes to be funded, what it takes

493
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:13,280
to be a research leader, what it takes to be well-known in your field, those are things

494
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,580
that are not confined to any one institution.

495
00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:19,380
So why stop at your one institution?

496
00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:24,100
Why stop at one person in your institution as the source of all your knowledge?

497
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:26,580
And could that knowledge be really true?

498
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:32,500
It is not to say that your research mentor is lying to you, but just saying that if you

499
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:40,460
only have a one-sided perspective of the academic universe, you only have a one-sided perspective.

500
00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:43,340
And it's multifaceted.

501
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:47,300
There are so many perspectives that can enrich you as a person.

502
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:52,660
And so if you have a network of mentors and you're missing an external mentor from an

503
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:55,580
external institution, you need that.

504
00:28:55,580 --> 00:28:59,380
And if you came to your institution from another institution, you kind of already have that.

505
00:28:59,380 --> 00:29:06,540
But what I'm asking you to do is to really work towards developing your cohort of external

506
00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:14,900
mentors, of external peer mentors, of external senior mentors, because they have information

507
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:20,900
that helps you think differently, that enhances your experience within the academy.

508
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:23,100
Okay, that was number six.

509
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:25,940
So number seven is a life mentor.

510
00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:31,220
You know, when everything hits the fan and you need some encouragement and life just

511
00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:36,340
is not working the way you want it to, you want to have someone you can go talk to.

512
00:29:36,340 --> 00:29:41,460
A safe space where someone's not going to be worried that the fact that your apartment

513
00:29:41,460 --> 00:29:46,980
burned down yesterday might affect their ability to submit the abstract by the deadline.

514
00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:49,900
And the reality of that, I know that should never be.

515
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:54,060
I mean, your research mentor should be someone you can go to and you can tell them everything,

516
00:29:54,060 --> 00:29:55,540
but please just don't do that.

517
00:29:55,540 --> 00:29:56,540
Don't burn them.

518
00:29:56,540 --> 00:29:58,780
Their job is just to help you succeed in research.

519
00:29:58,780 --> 00:30:03,020
If your apartment is burning down, I hope you'll have somebody to talk to, to give you

520
00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:06,100
encouragement and to show you the ropes and tell you what to do.

521
00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:07,900
And you probably do.

522
00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:13,820
But what I want you to recognize is that all the troubles that are going on in your life

523
00:30:13,820 --> 00:30:16,420
don't have to be offloaded to your one mentor.

524
00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:20,980
And hopefully you have more than one having heard all that I've told you.

525
00:30:20,980 --> 00:30:25,540
Your research mentor doesn't have to be the be all and end all of all your academic and

526
00:30:25,540 --> 00:30:26,540
life means.

527
00:30:26,540 --> 00:30:31,620
And the life mentor, I hope you recognize that you probably already had that even before

528
00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:33,180
you started medical school.

529
00:30:33,180 --> 00:30:37,400
I hope you have a contrary of friends that you can turn to in times of need.

530
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:43,660
And if yes, your life problems or your life challenges are affecting your ability to work

531
00:30:43,660 --> 00:30:48,820
well with someone with whom you've made a commitment to working with, you should let

532
00:30:48,820 --> 00:30:53,380
that person know how the life problem affects that commitment.

533
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:55,620
They don't need to be the one to give you sympathy.

534
00:30:55,620 --> 00:31:00,060
They don't need to be the one to hold you by the hand and walk you through the challenges

535
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:03,860
because you know what, your network is big enough to accept people who can help you do

536
00:31:03,860 --> 00:31:04,860
that.

537
00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:13,100
So I've talked about seven mentoring relationships that are beneficial to you on your journey.

538
00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:17,220
I've talked about seven mentoring relationships that are beneficial to you on your journey

539
00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:19,380
as a clinician scientist.

540
00:31:19,380 --> 00:31:22,500
And I want you to think about cultivating this network.

541
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:27,660
I want you to stop hoping that one person is going to give you all of it and start really

542
00:31:27,660 --> 00:31:33,580
thinking about what you really need and who can give it to you.

543
00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:37,540
So I want to ask you this week to sit down and really think about, okay, these seven

544
00:31:37,540 --> 00:31:42,100
areas that we've talked about on today's episode, where am I missing mentors?

545
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:46,100
Or where do I have mentors that I hadn't acknowledged that I already have?

546
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:48,580
And what are the specific skills I'm missing?

547
00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:51,660
And who can give me access to those skills?

548
00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:54,940
If there was somebody else who needs to hear this podcast episode, please forward it to

549
00:31:54,940 --> 00:31:55,940
them.

550
00:31:55,940 --> 00:31:59,340
If you have a mentor and you have a mentee who's like, oh, this person probably doesn't

551
00:31:59,340 --> 00:32:03,940
know that I'm not the one person to give them everything they need, definitely forward this

552
00:32:03,940 --> 00:32:05,580
episode to them.

553
00:32:05,580 --> 00:32:11,140
Let's make sure that after today, after you listen to this episode today, there is not

554
00:32:11,140 --> 00:32:16,740
another person who loses the opportunity to recognize the mentoring networks they already

555
00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:18,060
have established.

556
00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:21,900
Let's make sure that there's not going to be another faculty member who drops out because

557
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:23,740
they're like, I don't have a mentor.

558
00:32:23,740 --> 00:32:28,820
Let's help people recognize that whether or not they have the one guru mentor, they can

559
00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:29,820
still succeed.

560
00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:30,820
All right.

561
00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:31,820
That's been today's episode.

562
00:32:31,820 --> 00:32:42,100
I look forward to the next one.

563
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:47,460
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

564
00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:52,780
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

565
00:32:52,780 --> 00:32:54,220
have a mentor.

566
00:32:54,220 --> 00:33:00,180
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

567
00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:02,060
Someone else needs to hear it.

568
00:33:02,060 --> 00:33:06,140
So take a minute right now and share it.

569
00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:11,600
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

570
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:24,460
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.