How to close your charts by the clinic day's end with Dr. Mary Leung

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,300 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:03,820 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:03,820 --> 00:01:09,140 I am your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and I'm super, super excited to be bringing you this episode 14 00:01:09,140 --> 00:01:13,700 because I have a unique guest on the show, Dr. Mary Leung. 15 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:16,280 Mary, welcome to the show. 16 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,780 Thank you so much for having me today. 17 00:01:18,780 --> 00:01:25,760 Although Mary, you're a unique guest on the show because I've usually interviewed a lot 18 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:31,120 of clinician scientists, and you are a clinician who actually helps clinician scientists do 19 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,380 their job better. 20 00:01:32,380 --> 00:01:37,100 So I want you to just introduce yourself to the audience and tell us about what you do 21 00:01:37,100 --> 00:01:39,180 that is relevant to our audience. 22 00:01:39,180 --> 00:01:40,580 Yeah, sure. 23 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:47,220 So I am Mary Leung, and I am a hematologist and medical oncologist for adults, and I am 24 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:50,540 also a life coach for physicians. 25 00:01:50,540 --> 00:01:55,260 So during the day, my full-time job is I'm a clinician. 26 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:56,980 I mostly do clinical work. 27 00:01:56,980 --> 00:02:02,560 I don't really do research, and that's what Dr. Tiosi is doing. 28 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,340 And so I work full-time. 29 00:02:04,340 --> 00:02:08,020 I see 20-some patients a day. 30 00:02:08,020 --> 00:02:15,260 And during my spare time, I actually help physicians who have trouble getting their 31 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:20,660 work done on time to go home on time and have better management be more efficient during 32 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:30,500 their clinical time so that they can do whatever they want outside of the clinical hours. 33 00:02:30,500 --> 00:02:33,580 And your situation is really to do more research. 34 00:02:33,580 --> 00:02:34,580 Awesome. 35 00:02:34,580 --> 00:02:37,660 Okay, Dr. Mary, this is really, really helpful. 36 00:02:37,660 --> 00:02:43,580 And I want to thank you because what you help people do, you help people close their charts 37 00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:45,160 on time. 38 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,860 So that they can go home and do all the other things they want to do. 39 00:02:47,860 --> 00:02:53,140 And in this case, from my audience, it's clinicians who want to be able to do more research. 40 00:02:53,140 --> 00:02:57,040 And so many of my clinician audience, many members of my clinician audience are actually 41 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,620 full-time clinicians who are trying to make the transition to research. 42 00:03:00,620 --> 00:03:06,140 And so being able to shrink their workload into the time allotted for it is very difficult. 43 00:03:06,140 --> 00:03:08,780 And many of my clinicians say, I don't have enough time. 44 00:03:08,780 --> 00:03:11,500 I can't do research because I'm so busy clinically. 45 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:14,220 I am excited to hear what you're going to share. 46 00:03:14,220 --> 00:03:15,340 So how do you do it? 47 00:03:15,340 --> 00:03:16,340 How do you... 48 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:21,260 You're seeing 20-some patients a day and you're closing charts before the day is done. 49 00:03:21,260 --> 00:03:25,380 Some of my clinicians are not seeing that many patients and they're struggling. 50 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:26,500 So how do you do it? 51 00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:28,580 How do you close your charts on time? 52 00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:29,580 Yeah. 53 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:35,740 So I think I'll start off with, I'll just share with you a little bit about my own journey. 54 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:41,140 So not too long ago, I was actually in a similar situation that... 55 00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:48,180 I mean, I was still working full-time, seeing 20-some patients, but I wasn't able to leave 56 00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:50,540 work around five o'clock. 57 00:03:50,540 --> 00:03:55,780 I would start seeing my first patient at eight o'clock and my last patient was supposed to 58 00:03:55,780 --> 00:04:01,980 be done by around four, but I would still be charting, answering phone calls, doing 59 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:05,340 all these other things up till past seven. 60 00:04:05,340 --> 00:04:11,020 And then at that point, I told myself that while I really wanted to see my kids before 61 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:17,540 they don't recognize me, and I would just go home, spend some time with them. 62 00:04:17,540 --> 00:04:21,460 And when they went to bed, I would be charting some more. 63 00:04:21,460 --> 00:04:23,180 That was miserable. 64 00:04:23,180 --> 00:04:27,380 And so I wasn't really living life. 65 00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:35,340 I felt like I didn't sign up for this and how did I get into this? 66 00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:36,820 I felt like I was stuck. 67 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:37,820 I was frustrated. 68 00:04:37,820 --> 00:04:39,340 I was angry. 69 00:04:39,340 --> 00:04:45,980 All these negative emotions until the pandemic came and I had a taste of going home on time 70 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:50,220 because I was just seeing a third load of the patients during that time. 71 00:04:50,220 --> 00:04:55,700 I mean, I wasn't in the first line of defense in terms of the pandemic, so we were just 72 00:04:55,700 --> 00:05:02,460 trying to see all the chemo patients and whoever that really absolutely needed to be seen. 73 00:05:02,460 --> 00:05:11,900 So I thought, what if I could do this, going home on time while seeing a full load of patients? 74 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:14,060 And that would be amazing. 75 00:05:14,060 --> 00:05:21,700 So during that time, I had opportunities to explore other things outside of medicine. 76 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:27,100 And I came across something called life coaching and I had no clue what that was, but I thought 77 00:05:27,100 --> 00:05:33,020 anything, I would try anything to make my life better or just to make my life to be 78 00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:38,080 something that I was living and not just going through the motion. 79 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:44,780 So I did and I joined this coaching program and I was working with one of the coaches 80 00:05:44,780 --> 00:05:51,600 to because my biggest obstacle at that time was really just to finishing my work on time. 81 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:58,500 So in about three months, actually under three months, I just slowly went a little bit faster, 82 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:00,140 a little bit faster. 83 00:06:00,140 --> 00:06:07,180 And three months later, I was able to go home on time, basically 5, 5.30 with all my charts 84 00:06:07,180 --> 00:06:11,380 done and I'm not taking work home with me. 85 00:06:11,380 --> 00:06:15,220 Wow, Mary, that's such a great story. 86 00:06:15,220 --> 00:06:17,540 As you were sharing your story, I'm resonating. 87 00:06:17,540 --> 00:06:22,220 I spent three days once in my office, I spent the weekend in my office just trying to close 88 00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:23,220 charts. 89 00:06:23,220 --> 00:06:28,580 And I know that there are clinicians out there who are literally on the hamster wheel of 90 00:06:28,580 --> 00:06:30,480 trying to close charts. 91 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:31,480 How did you do it? 92 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:37,660 How did you go from staying late every time to being able to go home on time with charts 93 00:06:37,660 --> 00:06:38,660 closed? 94 00:06:38,660 --> 00:06:41,740 Yes, and with seeing the same number of patients. 95 00:06:41,740 --> 00:06:48,020 So it actually all starts with how you start your day. 96 00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:54,700 And this is how I also guide my physician clients during our one-on-one coaching program. 97 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:58,060 It's how you start your day is very important. 98 00:06:58,060 --> 00:07:04,780 When you wake up, the first thing you do in the morning, what do you think about? 99 00:07:04,780 --> 00:07:10,620 If you're thinking that, oh, I have too many patients to see, or if you're thinking that 100 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:17,940 I can't possibly close all my charts on time, then you're already starting on the wrong 101 00:07:17,940 --> 00:07:19,220 foot. 102 00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:25,180 So say if you're thinking that today is going to be a manageable day, how are you going 103 00:07:25,180 --> 00:07:26,180 to feel? 104 00:07:26,180 --> 00:07:32,020 You're going to feel probably more calm, more peace than, say, if you think that I'm not 105 00:07:32,020 --> 00:07:37,420 going to be able to go home on time, you're probably going to feel something along the 106 00:07:37,420 --> 00:07:42,620 lines of frustrated or anger or something kind of unpleasant or negative. 107 00:07:42,620 --> 00:07:47,900 So we as human beings are driven by our emotions. 108 00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:55,980 And I think it is very helpful to have somewhat of a positive or more pleasant emotion to 109 00:07:55,980 --> 00:08:00,260 be your fuel, to be your driver throughout the day. 110 00:08:00,260 --> 00:08:02,620 So how you start your day is very important. 111 00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:07,620 And of course, that's kind of like, because we're thinking about different things all 112 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:08,620 day long. 113 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:15,020 Sometimes we don't even think or we're not even aware of what we're thinking. 114 00:08:15,020 --> 00:08:21,380 And so be really mindful of what you're thinking and how you're thinking about things, because 115 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:26,420 that really affects your performance and what you do and how you do things. 116 00:08:26,420 --> 00:08:28,780 So that's the first things first. 117 00:08:28,780 --> 00:08:33,900 Second is that you tell yourself that you're able to handle the day. 118 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:38,380 And so you want to see the patient and do the charge right away. 119 00:08:38,380 --> 00:08:46,220 So one of the biggest mistakes that I've had in the past was that I thought that I had 120 00:08:46,220 --> 00:08:53,540 to keep my patients to be as close to the scheduled time as possible, because I thought 121 00:08:53,540 --> 00:08:59,620 that if I didn't do that, I was a bad physician. 122 00:08:59,620 --> 00:09:06,100 And so how I changed for that was I sacrificed my own time. 123 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:11,340 And so in the beginning of the day, I would be able to really finish most of the patient's 124 00:09:11,340 --> 00:09:14,300 shards after they were being seen. 125 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:21,100 And then usually as the day went on, especially the second half of the day, I had trouble 126 00:09:21,100 --> 00:09:25,820 and I thought, oh, I was already running late, 15, 20, 30 minutes late. 127 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:26,820 No, you know what? 128 00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:31,980 I'll just finish the charts later so I could bring in the next patient. 129 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:37,620 And what ended up happening was at the end of the day, I would still have sometimes five 130 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:39,460 charts, not too bad. 131 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:42,700 Sometimes it would be 10 charts or 13 charts. 132 00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:46,020 And I started to feel tired. 133 00:09:46,020 --> 00:09:48,060 I was frustrated. 134 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:53,300 I thought that I should have finished those charts already, but I still have so many charts 135 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:55,540 to do. 136 00:09:55,540 --> 00:09:56,740 And my brain was slowing down. 137 00:09:56,740 --> 00:09:58,060 I was getting tired. 138 00:09:58,060 --> 00:10:07,900 So it would take me two or three more times the time that I would use to finish the chart 139 00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:11,060 if I finish it right then and there. 140 00:10:11,060 --> 00:10:17,060 So seeing the patient, doing a chart right away is very important because it's so fresh 141 00:10:17,060 --> 00:10:20,420 on your mind and it is okay. 142 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:21,620 Just give yourself some grace. 143 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:27,980 It is okay to let the next patient wait for a little bit because guess what? 144 00:10:27,980 --> 00:10:33,220 When you're done with this patient and the chart, then you can 100% focus on the next 145 00:10:33,220 --> 00:10:36,380 patient and not think about, oh, I forgot to write that. 146 00:10:36,380 --> 00:10:39,780 I, you know, forwarded that other patient. 147 00:10:39,780 --> 00:10:42,980 So I think it's important to do that. 148 00:10:42,980 --> 00:10:50,140 And the next thing is really to be really, really focused on doing one thing at a time. 149 00:10:50,140 --> 00:10:55,540 I know, you know, we physicians, we think that we can multitask, we can do a lot of 150 00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:57,180 different things at the same time. 151 00:10:57,180 --> 00:11:02,260 But what we're doing is actually we're task switching, meaning that our brain is just 152 00:11:02,260 --> 00:11:05,400 kind of switching from one thing to another. 153 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:11,320 And it actually takes time for your brain to recover from one event to another. 154 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:17,500 So if you do that multiple, multiple times during the day, you actually spend more time 155 00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:21,560 to do one thing or to do the three things that you wanted to do. 156 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:28,340 So I think that, you know, those are really very, very helpful things that help me to 157 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:31,980 cut down on my, you know, clinical time. 158 00:11:31,980 --> 00:11:40,920 The other thing is also a lot of, I think a lot of us are doing really outpatient work. 159 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:46,260 So for outpatients, you know, you have your set schedule. 160 00:11:46,260 --> 00:11:53,460 And also you usually have staff members working in your clinic, you know, say the medical 161 00:11:53,460 --> 00:11:56,160 assistants, nurses, or the front desk. 162 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:03,300 So I think one of the things really, really helpful is to minimize the interruptions that 163 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:06,060 are created by your staff members. 164 00:12:06,060 --> 00:12:13,180 So, you know, it will be helpful to have kind of a protocol to let them know when to absolutely 165 00:12:13,180 --> 00:12:19,540 necessarily interrupt you during, while you're seeing patients, as opposed to every single 166 00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:21,380 phone call to find you. 167 00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:27,620 You know, sometimes they may be already taken care of by your nurses or if you have PAs 168 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:29,580 or MPs, you know. 169 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:33,140 So have a protocol set that will be very helpful. 170 00:12:33,140 --> 00:12:39,420 And also in terms of interruption, to not to interrupt yourself, meaning that, you know 171 00:12:39,420 --> 00:12:48,220 what, in the middle of seeing patients or in between seeing patients, minimize the really 172 00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:56,740 the time that you use to check emails or go on social media, you know, just really avoid 173 00:12:56,740 --> 00:12:58,260 that temptation. 174 00:12:58,260 --> 00:13:04,780 So I think with kind of like these kind of like the outlines of what I do and what I 175 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:09,940 teach other physicians to do, and I think just even implementing two or three things 176 00:13:09,940 --> 00:13:12,100 that will be really, really helpful. 177 00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:14,900 Wow, Mary, thank you so much. 178 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:20,980 You've given so much and having like my mind blown in this moment. 179 00:13:20,980 --> 00:13:21,980 Okay. 180 00:13:21,980 --> 00:13:26,900 So the first thing I'm hearing you say is, to some extent, to summarize everything you 181 00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:30,780 said, it's like you've got to be very focused and intentional about ending the day with 182 00:13:30,780 --> 00:13:31,780 your charts closed. 183 00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:32,940 It's like your mission. 184 00:13:32,940 --> 00:13:37,580 So because it's your mission, your first start to the day, the way you even think about your 185 00:13:37,580 --> 00:13:42,060 day has got to be that it's possible, you're able to do it, and none of the negative, oh 186 00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:45,180 my gosh, I can't believe how many patients I have, it's going to be another terrible 187 00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:46,180 day. 188 00:13:46,180 --> 00:13:50,460 It's really preparing your mind for the mission of closing charts by the end of the day. 189 00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:54,260 Then I also hear you talk about how it's okay, your patients are, you're going to be a few 190 00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:57,260 minutes late to the next patient and it's going to be okay, because by the time you 191 00:13:57,260 --> 00:13:59,980 get to the next patient, you'll have that chart done. 192 00:13:59,980 --> 00:14:03,660 And that's important rather than saying, I'll just leave it till the end of the day when 193 00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:08,540 it's your time and then you're the one kind of, and you're tired, your brain can't do 194 00:14:08,540 --> 00:14:11,660 as much because you've left it all to the end of the day. 195 00:14:11,660 --> 00:14:15,460 So the importance of not letting the anxiety of, oh my gosh, the patient's waiting, I can't 196 00:14:15,460 --> 00:14:19,500 finish this, for you pushing it away so that you can focus. 197 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:23,260 And then I also hear you say the task switching, oh, that's such a big one. 198 00:14:23,260 --> 00:14:28,140 I have some follow-up questions from this one where either your staff are interrupting 199 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:30,460 you or you're interrupting yourself. 200 00:14:30,460 --> 00:14:31,460 Okay. 201 00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:35,100 So one of the thoughts, the questions that came to my mind is, what if you're in a big 202 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:41,420 work room and you have all these, your colleagues are in the room, your PAs and MPs are in the 203 00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:47,700 room, how can you work in a work room full of people and still be able to focus on getting 204 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:48,700 the notes done? 205 00:14:48,700 --> 00:14:50,900 What do you recommend? 206 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:57,380 I think one of the things is, if you're all working together, it may be helpful to have 207 00:14:57,380 --> 00:15:03,060 kind of like a regular meeting from time to time to see how we can all improve things. 208 00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:08,740 Because you know what, if you help each other do things better, you all win. 209 00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:15,940 So in a room like that, sometimes you may have informal discussions, and maybe we can 210 00:15:15,940 --> 00:15:22,980 just kind of like set an informal rule in a sense that just to say that, hey, unless 211 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:31,020 it's necessary, we'll try to just do this work thing together, but individually, as 212 00:15:31,020 --> 00:15:36,540 opposed to be kind of constantly interrupting each other. 213 00:15:36,540 --> 00:15:41,440 Because I think that of course sometimes there could be some more urgent things that of course 214 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,200 there are always exceptions. 215 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:51,700 But I think in terms of the workflow and who you're working with and how the day goes, 216 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:57,940 it's of course, sometimes you have to individualize and tailor to the culture of the work. 217 00:15:57,940 --> 00:16:04,740 But I think as physicians, you're kind of like leaders for your staff or for your PAs 218 00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:05,740 and MPs. 219 00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:13,220 So in a sense, sometimes it's an experimental thing. 220 00:16:13,220 --> 00:16:16,260 You may try something to see if that works, if it works great. 221 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:19,480 If not, then maybe you just want to tweak it a little bit. 222 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:29,540 So I think that just reminds me of how, because sometimes I do do inpatient work. 223 00:16:29,540 --> 00:16:35,440 I think once about every eight weeks or so, and I'll spend Monday through Friday just 224 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:42,820 inpatient and I will be working in a work room with other clinicians also. 225 00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:45,780 And we just kind of do our own thing. 226 00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:54,380 Sometimes some people like to chat and I would just kind of politely either say, let me finish 227 00:16:54,380 --> 00:17:00,160 this first because I really want to finish my thought before talking about things. 228 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:05,580 And I think after a while, if you do it more like that, people do realize that, hey, you 229 00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:06,580 know what? 230 00:17:06,580 --> 00:17:12,140 We kind of try to respect one another's time and we try to get things done. 231 00:17:12,140 --> 00:17:13,140 Wow. 232 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:15,260 Thank you for sharing that, Mary. 233 00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:20,180 As you're talking, what I'm hearing is that it's a cultural shift, right? 234 00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:25,320 It's shifting the way you believed up until this point or behaved up until this point. 235 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,440 Because up until this point, if you're struggling to close charts, you're struggling to close 236 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,860 charts because your process currently doesn't work for you. 237 00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:35,820 But in order for you to get to a point where you're telling your staff, don't interrupt 238 00:17:35,820 --> 00:17:40,540 me except for these elements or the people working in the work room with you, hey, I'm 239 00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:43,780 finishing a thought, give me a few minutes. 240 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:45,820 It's not something we're used to doing. 241 00:17:45,820 --> 00:17:50,020 I think as physicians, we're very much like, oh, I'm always available to help you at all 242 00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:51,660 times. 243 00:17:51,660 --> 00:17:56,500 And sometimes that, you know, now shifting to a place where it's almost, it almost feels 244 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,500 like being selfish. 245 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:01,540 Can you speak to that kind of mindset? 246 00:18:01,540 --> 00:18:05,100 Because I think as clinicians, we feel like we should always be available and always be 247 00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:08,820 able to help, but it does impede us from finishing our work. 248 00:18:08,820 --> 00:18:10,620 How do you overcome that mindset? 249 00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:15,700 Oh, yeah, it took me a while. 250 00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:23,460 So it is very true because, you know, we're always kind of, I think, taught indirectly 251 00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:29,900 that we should always be available, you know, even sometimes even after hours, we should 252 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:31,460 be available. 253 00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:34,540 And that is kind of the biggest lie. 254 00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:40,380 I would say, you know, of course it takes a while to really realize that it doesn't 255 00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:42,140 have to be the case. 256 00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:50,620 During your work hours, of course, you know, it's very helpful to be available, you know, 257 00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:57,900 as much as you can, but at the same time is if it's after hours, if you're not on call, 258 00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:05,620 you know, it's okay not to answer a page or call or you redirect to whoever is on call 259 00:19:05,620 --> 00:19:11,660 because otherwise, you know, are you going to really, if you enjoy doing that, that's 260 00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:13,180 my guess. 261 00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:18,540 But if that's not something that you want to do or if that's not something that is in 262 00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:24,900 alignment with your values because you want to spend time, you know, for whatever you 263 00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:31,380 enjoy doing or with your family, then, you know, I think it is important to really have 264 00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:37,740 a very clear boundary that you're giving out, you know, not a wishy washy one, but, you 265 00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:44,380 know, let people know that when you're on duty, you're 100% available, you know, of 266 00:19:44,380 --> 00:19:50,740 course, you have your own work to do, like say if somehow something about research is 267 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:56,620 contacting you while you're seeing patients, you know, depending on the severity of the 268 00:19:56,620 --> 00:20:02,500 situation, you may want to just finish seeing that patient first and then answer to that 269 00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:09,140 call as opposed to interrupting the whole patient encounter to answer that call. 270 00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:16,700 So I think that just, you know, it takes practice to even to rewire our long time thinking to 271 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:21,700 say that, hey, you know what, we're going to be doing our best and we're going to be 272 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:26,620 available for however much that, you know, we're responsible for. 273 00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:33,220 And outside of that, it is okay to have your own time and be your own person. 274 00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:37,140 And we don't have to please everybody all the time. 275 00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:40,500 You know, of course we, you know, we're team players. 276 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,820 We work well with other people. 277 00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:47,500 That doesn't mean that you have to be available 24 seven. 278 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:48,500 Wow. 279 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:54,460 I love, I love, I just love all the, all the insights that you're sharing and I can, I 280 00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:58,500 can already hear people's hearts pumping faster and saying, what you mean? 281 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:02,100 Is it, is it okay for me to, to not be available 24 seven? 282 00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:06,420 And again, it goes, it's counter cultural, but you know, as you're alluding to, it's 283 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:09,420 like the other work you have to do is important too. 284 00:21:09,420 --> 00:21:14,100 And so being able to fit the work that you're supposed to do at this time, within this time 285 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:18,820 helps you be more effective in all your other jobs because spending time with our families, 286 00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:21,860 for many of us, we're still working even as we're doing that. 287 00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:28,660 Or for many of my clients who are also scientists, like spending, spending time away from clinic 288 00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:32,840 many times means more time to actually do the science that you came to do. 289 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,980 And so, wow, how important it is to be able to establish those boundaries so that we can 290 00:21:36,980 --> 00:21:41,140 do well in both jobs because, oh my gosh, to be able to close charts by the end of the 291 00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:46,500 day, everybody loves a clinician who can close charts and, and for clinicians to walk away 292 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:51,420 from their clinic, to be able to go do their science, that's an important thing as well. 293 00:21:51,420 --> 00:21:53,460 But it definitely will take a lot of work. 294 00:21:53,460 --> 00:21:55,060 And that's why you're a coach. 295 00:21:55,060 --> 00:22:00,040 That's why you support people to do this work that is super hard to do on their own. 296 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,940 So I want to ask you, like if people who are listening want to work with you, how do they 297 00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:06,820 do that? 298 00:22:06,820 --> 00:22:08,620 Thank you for mentioning it. 299 00:22:08,620 --> 00:22:15,380 So before that, I do want to add one more thing is that, yes, how we start our day is 300 00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:21,300 very important and kind of like have a goal in mind, you know, that think about why you 301 00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,540 want to finish your charts on time. 302 00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:27,700 You know, you want to finish your charts on time so that you can enjoy time with your 303 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:34,420 family or I want to finish my charts on time so that I can have more time to do my research 304 00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:37,460 that I really want to do, you know, something positive. 305 00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:43,860 So it has, you know, got to be something that is a strong enough motivation throughout the 306 00:22:43,860 --> 00:22:44,860 day. 307 00:22:44,860 --> 00:22:48,900 And you remind yourself that, you know, I'm finishing my chart on time so that, you know, 308 00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:50,260 you fill in the blanks. 309 00:22:50,260 --> 00:22:58,780 So I think that will also generate more of a positive feel like such as focus, determination 310 00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:07,260 or confidence, you know, that you need to be your fuel to see the patient, do the charts 311 00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:10,340 and finish your clinic on time. 312 00:23:10,340 --> 00:23:16,740 And I think, you know, this is not something that happens overnight and it may take weeks 313 00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:22,100 or even longer, especially if you have hundreds of charts open. 314 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:27,980 And I do have, you know, people that have, you know, hundreds of charts open and you 315 00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:31,580 have to kind of like backtrack and slowly close them up. 316 00:23:31,580 --> 00:23:32,580 It is doable. 317 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:33,680 It is doable. 318 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:40,540 So I encourage you all to really try, you know, what we talked about today. 319 00:23:40,540 --> 00:23:43,860 And I am not really anyone special. 320 00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:46,900 I know Dr. Toyosi said I'm unique and thank you. 321 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:53,020 I think everyone is unique, but I'm not, you know, I'm not someone with super power. 322 00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:59,660 It's just shifting our mind to think and focus on what we need to focus. 323 00:23:59,660 --> 00:24:06,000 So I think for physicians who are interested to know more about me, can visit my website 324 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:14,540 at www.shiningwithgratitudemd.com and you're welcome to also email me to find out more 325 00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:18,340 about my one-on-one physician coaching program. 326 00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:23,500 And the email is shiningwithgratitudemd.gmail.com. 327 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:32,780 I do write two blocks a week and you can find me on LinkedIn at MarylandMD or Facebook Maryland. 328 00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:35,780 Mary, that is so awesome. 329 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:40,620 I just feel like your work is so important, even for clinicians who are not trying to 330 00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:45,500 be scientists, clinicians who are just trying to get their lives back, right? 331 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:47,460 Just being able to close charts. 332 00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:50,700 And I'm hearing you say that even if you have hundreds of charts open, and it sounds like 333 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:55,860 you had clients or at least a client or two who's had hundreds of charts open, it is possible 334 00:24:55,860 --> 00:25:01,380 to get them closed and stay caught up forever with the strategies that you teach. 335 00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:06,940 I wonder if you just want to, in closing, just encourage the provider who is a couple 336 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:12,540 of tens of, you know, actually maybe a couple of hundred charts behind and just encouraging 337 00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:17,680 them about what's possible with your strategies to help clinicians close these charts and 338 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:23,060 stay on top of their charts. 339 00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:27,820 You know, looking back, I think in the beginning of the journey before coaching, I didn't think 340 00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:31,020 that it was possible for me to go home before seven o'clock. 341 00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:36,480 I thought going home at seven o'clock without any work, you know, left behind, that was 342 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:37,720 already amazing. 343 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,500 But now I'm going home at five. 344 00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:45,700 I'll just say, yeah, really five and sometimes a little bit earlier even, after seeing 20 345 00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:50,740 some patients, I can never go back to where I was. 346 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:55,940 It's you know, you get transformed to be someone totally different. 347 00:25:55,940 --> 00:26:01,020 You have a new identity because you're the patient, I mean, you're the physician who 348 00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:08,260 finishes your work on time and you're not bringing any work home. 349 00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:14,780 So I think that it's start with the belief that it is possible. 350 00:26:14,780 --> 00:26:17,860 Don't think of it how, just yet. 351 00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:22,620 Just believe that it is possible because when you have the strong belief, you're going to 352 00:26:22,620 --> 00:26:24,020 work toward it. 353 00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:30,380 You know, it's just like the book, I forgot which book, I apologize, you know, the formula, 354 00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:34,740 the miracle equation, I think it's the unwavering faith. 355 00:26:34,740 --> 00:26:39,580 And with the extraordinary effort, you're going to create a miracle. 356 00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:43,700 And of course, finishing sharp on time, it may sound like a miracle right now. 357 00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:47,300 It did sound like that to me, but it is possible. 358 00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:54,100 And just what we talked about during this session is it's really, it sounds kind of 359 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:55,220 simple. 360 00:26:55,220 --> 00:26:58,660 It is not the easiest thing to do, but it is totally doable. 361 00:26:58,660 --> 00:27:03,300 So I encourage, you know, physicians who have hundreds of charts left behind, just do it 362 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:05,140 little by little, you know. 363 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:11,380 It's kind of like when we encourage patients to lose weight, when you tell them to lose 364 00:27:11,380 --> 00:27:14,980 50 pounds, it sounded very, very scary. 365 00:27:14,980 --> 00:27:18,540 And if you tell them to say, hey, how about one to two pounds a week? 366 00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:22,300 I would just say most people say that, yeah, it's doable. 367 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:28,260 So it's the same thing, you know, maybe instead of going home two and a half hours earlier 368 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:33,340 than you normally do, try 15 minutes at a time. 369 00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:34,340 It's doable. 370 00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:35,340 I love it. 371 00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:36,340 I love it. 372 00:27:36,340 --> 00:27:38,100 This is going to change people's lives. 373 00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:39,740 Mary, thank you so much. 374 00:27:39,740 --> 00:27:40,740 Wow. 375 00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:45,500 You just shared some really amazing insights and I feel like it is going to liberate so 376 00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:48,780 many clinicians who feel like I just am too busy clinically. 377 00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:51,060 There is no way I can move on to do my research. 378 00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:54,060 And it sounds like it's possible. 379 00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:55,700 You can help them. 380 00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:59,540 And definitely I will add your information to the show notes so that they're able to 381 00:27:59,540 --> 00:28:01,020 connect with you as well. 382 00:28:01,020 --> 00:28:04,340 Mary, it's just been such a pleasure having you on the show. 383 00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:08,500 Thank you so much for just the insight that you provide to clinicians. 384 00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,180 You're changing lives and I just want to appreciate you for coming on the show and sharing your 385 00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:13,180 insights. 386 00:28:13,180 --> 00:28:15,180 For having me. 387 00:28:15,180 --> 00:28:16,340 All right. 388 00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:18,660 Everybody, you've heard Dr. Long. 389 00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:20,560 It is possible. 390 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,560 You can do this. 391 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,700 You can close your charts and keep your charts closed so that you can be liberated to do 392 00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,020 all the other work that you want to do. 393 00:28:28,020 --> 00:28:34,380 And so definitely connect with Dr. Long, make an appointment and she's the person for you 394 00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:38,660 to help you get charts closed and keep them closed. 395 00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:39,660 Thank you everyone for listening. 396 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:43,900 Mary, thank you for being on the show and I look forward to connecting with you all 397 00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:52,420 the next time. 398 00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:57,740 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic 399 00:28:57,740 --> 00:29:02,940 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 400 00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:03,940 have a mentor. 401 00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:10,540 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 402 00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:12,420 Someone else needs to hear it. 403 00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:16,460 So take a minute right now and share it. 404 00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:21,940 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 405 00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:34,820 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.