How to structure your research collaborations

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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All right everyone, welcome to today's episode.

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I am Toyosi Onwuemene.

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What a privilege it is to be talking with you today.

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Thank you for tuning in.

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Thank you for listening.

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I'm talking today about how to structure your research collaborations, and I want to invite

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you, if you have not already, to sign up for Academic Negotiation Academy, where we show

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clinicians how to negotiate their careers so that they can lead the research programs

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that help them thrive and make a significant difference in the lives of their patients.

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So if you're interested, please sign up on our website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.

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I would love to be your coach and help you negotiate your research career.

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Okay, so today we're talking about how to decide on collaborations.

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And I think that collaborations are so awesome because what one person can do when you bring

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two or three people together, oh my goodness, you can do so much more.

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And then if you bring four or five people together who have the same goal, who have

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the same focus, it's pretty awesome.

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And the thing about collaborations though is that they kind of have their dark side

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as well.

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And I'm going to talk a little bit today about the dark side and the bright side of collaborations.

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And the specific collaboration I'm thinking about is kind of one collaboration in particular.

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I got together with a group and we had a specific rare disease population that we were interested

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in.

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And over the course of years, we worked really hard on building a panel of patients that

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we could answer questions in.

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And so there was a lot of excitement at the beginning and we were able to kind of craft

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solid research questions and think about what variables we wanted to collect.

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And we built a red cap registry and really a lot of the work moved forward.

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But one of the things that I appreciated is that some people were moving the work forward

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and others were not.

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And many times we would come to meetings and some people would say, oh, I haven't had time.

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I haven't had time.

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And really, you know, there were years and years that went by of, well, we haven't done

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this and we haven't done that.

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And maybe two or three other programs that were kind of leading the charge in terms of

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like, you know, making things happen.

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And then the pandemic happened.

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And then of course, it was really hard to move anything forward.

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And I remember just thinking about how much I had invested time into this particular collaboration.

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And oh, yeah, it did yield fruit.

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We had publications that came out of the collaboration.

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But it also was a lot of energy.

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It was a lot of energy.

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And I think I had such a great vision for what could be achieved in this collaboration

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that somehow wasn't really happening.

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And I finally got to a point where I thought, hmm, it may be time for me to transition this

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collaboration or at least stay in a peripheral rather than be in a leadership role.

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And that was an important move for me because ultimately what it allowed me to do is focus

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energies on other areas.

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And so it's helped me really think about collaborations and how do you get value out of your research

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collaborations?

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How do you structure your research collaborations so that they serve you?

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And yes, research collaborations are kind of about the greater good.

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And the greater good is always important.

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But it takes a long time to get to the greater good.

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And many times people don't always agree on what that greater good looks like.

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And so in some collaborations, arguing about what is the greater good, what does it look

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like, who benefits from it can overwhelm discussion so that instead of moving forward and doing

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the greater good, you're spending a lot of time trying to figure out what that greater

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good looks like.

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And so for that reason, I want to just share with you today ways to think about collaborations.

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The first thing I want to share is that you are the most important piece of any collaboration.

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Can I say this again?

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You are the most important piece of any collaboration.

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And I hear you saying, no, I'm not.

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Get over yourself.

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What I'm saying is that from the perspective of your career as a clinician researcher,

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you are the most important piece of the collaboration.

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No, not the collaborative leader, not the program that's making it happen.

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It's you.

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And you're here because you're advancing your career as a clinician researcher.

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That's why you're here.

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And it's great that at the end of the day, other people's careers are served by your

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work.

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The primary, most important person to be served by the work that you do is you and your career.

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And so any collaboration needs to first be structured with you in mind.

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How will you benefit?

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Oh, yes, at the end of the day, patients will benefit.

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That's great.

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Patients will always benefit from your work because you're a clinician.

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That's what you do.

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But how do you structure collaboration so that you win?

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Yes, the whole collaborative body wins, but how do you win as well?

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What is your win?

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And so that's why it's important to recognize that you are the most important piece of that

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collaboration, you.

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And because you're the most important piece of that collaboration, every collaboration

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you enter into must have a clear definition of how you win, how you succeed within the

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confines of that collaboration.

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And I know that there are collaborations where it's like, well, you put in your time and

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maybe after seven or eight years of being part of this collaborative group, you can

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lead something.

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Yes, those kinds of collaboratives exist.

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But I need you to understand that you are the most important piece and you need to be

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very clear on how you win.

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And if the win is seven or eight years down the road, be very clear about that because

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you need to be winning before seven or eight years are up.

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And if for whatever reason the collaboration turns sour before the seven or eight years

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are up, does that mean all the work that you did turns out to be nothing?

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You want to just have that in mind that your winning is an important piece of any collaboration

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and you should consider that if any collaboration does not advance your career as a clinician

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researcher, I want you to consider if it's a collaboration you should be part of.

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And if you're part of it, consider whether it should be a major piece of your portfolio.

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Okay.

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Make sure you recognize that you're the most important piece of this collaboration.

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The second thing that I want you to think about is that you are a great collaborator

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when you lead your own research program.

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So one of the things that collaborations help you do is in a sense they take pressure off

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of you so you don't have to be the one necessarily like driving the program or leading the questions

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or necessarily applying for funding to fund the collaboration unless you're the person

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who's actually the leader of the collaboration.

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It does take pressure off of you, but the best collaborators are people who understand

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how to move work forward.

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The best collaborators are people who are actually doing the work and there's no greater

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laboratory to test your work than your own.

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Whether that's a wet or a dry lab, there's no greater place to test your skills as a

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clinician researcher than your own personal research program.

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And so when you've gone through the growing pains of building a research program, of thinking

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about research questions and how to answer them and helping people come to do your work,

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you get very good at collaborations because you have something tangible to bring to the

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collaboration.

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You have your wealth of experience.

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You have the work you've done.

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You have new ideas that you're consistently workshopping in your own research program.

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So your strength as a collaborator is enhanced when you actually lead your own research program.

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And I want to say this because I think for many clinician researchers, there's this

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sense of like, well, I don't have to lead.

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I can just join other people.

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And yes, you can.

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And there's value in that.

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We need more people kind of contributing to the enterprise.

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But you become really, really good and effective as a collaborator when you actually lead your

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own program yourself.

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For example, when people are asking you for letters of support because you ask for letters

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of support, you know what that means.

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You know how to craft a good letter of support.

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You know why it's important to be timely with getting your letter of support out to your

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co-investigators because you've had that experience.

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So you are a great collaborator when you lead your own research.

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And so don't let collaborations deter you from actually leading your own research.

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Okay.

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Number three is that collaborations are really only as good as the collaborators that contribute

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to them.

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What is the strength?

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What is the investment?

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What is the commitment level of the investigators that are contributing to the research program?

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And that's important because if the investigators who are part of the collaboration are not

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invested, then it's a collaboration that may just continue to have subpar impact over time.

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If collaborators are not committed, then kind of they let things slide.

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And it's a month later, it's two months later, it's three years later, and the same things

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are happening over and over again and your work is not moving forward.

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So you have to recognize the collaborators that make up the collaborations.

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And this is not to say anything wrong about the people you may be collaborating with.

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It's just that everybody has different time pressures and everybody has different levels

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of support for research.

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For many clinicians, there isn't support for research.

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People talk about sweat equity.

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So every time you're talking about sweat equity, just recognize that it means people are really

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doing this work on their own time.

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Most of the time, if people are not resourced to do work, it's just work that they can't

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always do well.

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They can't do as well.

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Some people are able to make a lot happen on just kind of doing things on the side.

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But for the most part, most people can't.

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And so just as you're considering your collaborations, consider how much time do people have to actually

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put into this work?

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And is it sufficient to move the work forward?

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You want to recognize that.

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You want to consider collaborations where people actually are able to do work.

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They lead their own research programs, which means that they actually have time during

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the day and space to do the research, and those collaborators tend to be much stronger

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than collaborations where collaborators are kind of doing things as they can on their

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own time.

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And this is not, again, to down that or to say, oh, that's not a superior collaboration.

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It's just to say you want to recognize these collaborations and you want to determine where

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in your work they fit.

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Do they come before the work you do?

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Which collaboration should be the most that you prioritize?

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Because you're always making an investment.

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You have to ask to what extent will I get a return on my investment and in what time

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frame?

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So recognize who your collaborators are because collaborations are only as good as the collaborators

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that contribute to them.

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Number four is that collaborations actually take a long time to come to fruition.

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Collaborations take a long time to come to fruition, and you have to recognize that time

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horizon.

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In fact, much of research takes a long time to come to fruition.

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And when we're moving forward in our research careers, we're thinking what's short term,

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what's going to bring something fast, what's going to take more time to come to fruition?

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You in general tend to have research projects at various stages of maturation.

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But when it comes to collaborations, usually it's a long process for you to really, really

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see benefit, for you to really see gain.

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And you want to recognize that.

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It takes time.

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And for that reason, it's like, okay, while you're doing this collaboration, what else

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are you doing?

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How else are you moving your research project forward?

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If it's going to take a few years for this research project to come to fruition, what

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else are you doing in those years?

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You want to recognize that collaborations can take a long time, and then you want to

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adjust accordingly for how much collaborations feature in the work that you do.

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And this is not to say they shouldn't feature.

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It's just to recognize that maybe they shouldn't be as prominent relative to the work that

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you generate for yourself.

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Okay.

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The other thing is that the leader of the collaboration is key to its success.

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So invariably, there's a leader of the collaboration, and they have energy, they have vision, they

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have focus.

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Who is the leader of the collaboration?

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And to what extent do they embody the things that you find valuable about that collaboration?

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And you want to really think through who's the leadership of this collaboration.

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And also recognize that if the collaboration, if this particular leader ends the collaboration,

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what does that leave you?

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If there's a charismatic leader that's not you, and all of a sudden, for whatever reason,

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they can't lead this collaboration anymore, is it a collaboration that's structured to

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continue beyond this person?

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And these are just, you know, again, things to consider that is this a leader who actually

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is able to make the investment, has a wealth of experience, is able to continue to lead

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this group to success.

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So the leader is important, and you want to take time to think about that.

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Number six is think about what the end of the collaboration could look like for you.

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And sometimes I see faculty who are very, very invested in collaborations to the exclusion

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of any work for themselves.

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And then sometimes the collaborations end abruptly.

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Maybe the leader moves to another institution and changes job focus.

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And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, all this work, where is it going to go?

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Or sometimes there's just a change in the environment and something else becomes more

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important and then this collaboration falls to the wayside.

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And so it's important to think about, okay, if this collaboration comes to an end, how

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do I move forward?

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Are all my eggs in this one basket such that I would suffer a lot of loss if this collaboration

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doesn't move forward?

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So you want to think about what the end of the collaboration could look like for you.

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And number seven, number seven is that if this collaboration did not exist, would your

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research still exist?

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If this collaboration did not exist, would your research still exist?

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And so it's important that we do collaborations because there's a lot of synergy there.

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But also consider whether this collaboration is all of your research program.

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And if for whatever reason this collaboration ceased to exist, would your research program

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still be there?

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Would it still be functional?

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Would it still be viable?

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Or would you now start thinking about, oh, great, I put all my eggs in that basket.

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Now I need to do something else.

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And so the reason I want you to consider all these things is not to give you like a negative

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experience or a negative sense of collaborations, but it's just to consider that collaborations

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should be part of your portfolio.

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They should not necessarily be all of your portfolio.

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And sometimes collaborations feel easier because you know what, there's so many people doing

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the work, therefore it's moving forward or somebody else is leading, therefore you don't

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have to worry about it.

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But again, I want to say that my conversation is mostly to research leaders because clinicians

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have the most amazing ideas that really will transform the way we do health care, will

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transform the way we do patient care.

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And if you have one of those ideas, depending on a collaboration, to move that research

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forward is important as long as you also have kind of like a great framework for moving

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the project forward even when there's no collaboration.

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And so I just wanted to share these seven things with you because I think it's important

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that you collaborate for synergy and also consider how you use a collaboration to your

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own advantage.

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So to summarize those seven, recognize that you're the most important piece of the collaboration.

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You're a great collaborator when you lead your own research.

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Collaborations are only as good as the collaborators that contribute to them.

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Collaborations can take a long time to come to fruition.

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The leader of the collaboration is key to the success of the collaboration, so maybe

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you should be the leader or create a collaboration in which you lead.

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Number six, think about what the end of the collaboration looks like for you and ask yourself

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the question, if this collaboration did not exist, would my research program still exist?

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So definitely consider carefully how you structure your collaboration and make sure you're leading

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as well.

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So lead your own research program, lead your own collaboration, and then be part of collaborations

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as well.

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And I want to also invite you to think about who are the people you collaborate with.

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Many times clinicians are more comfortable collaborating with other clinicians, and I

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want to argue that you should think about collaborating with PhD scientists.

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And so how much synergy could come from the clinician expert and the methodological expert

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coming together to answer questions?

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I mean, that would be so phenomenal.

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And so I want you to consider synergy in collaborations and thinking about other methodologists who

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could help you really, really craft an amazing, amazing research program.

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Okay, that's all I have for today.

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I want you to please share this episode with just one other physician, just one clinician

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today needs to hear about how to structure, how to think about structuring research collaborations,

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and I want to invite you to please share this episode with them.

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All right, it's been a pleasure talking with you today.

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I look forward to the next time.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.