Mentorship across disciplines with President Toyin Tofade

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be here today.

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I'm especially excited because I have a very, very, very special guest on today.

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She is not a physician.

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She's a pharmacist, or I should say she was a pharmacist, because right now she is president

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of Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences.

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Dr. Tofade, or should I say President Tofade, welcome to the show.

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Thank you for having me.

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Dr. Tafade, one of the reasons I asked you to come here is because you are one of my

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mentors and sponsors, and you've been a coach to me in many things.

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I consider myself very fortunate because not very many people have presidents as mentors

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or sponsors.

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But we're here today to really talk in general about mentorship and sponsorship, and even

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across disciplines.

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But before we get started, I want you to just help our audience.

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We're clinicians, scientists, help our audience understand your journey to where you are today.

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Well, thank you.

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Thank you so much, and greetings to everybody who's listening to this podcast.

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I'm Toyin Tofade, and I started my journey being a pharmacist, actually.

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I did my master's in PharmD at UNC Chapel Hill, and I also practiced as a pharmacist,

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a clinical specialist at UNC hospitals for several years.

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Then moved to Raleigh in North Carolina at the Wake Area Health Education Center, which

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is where I served for about nine years, first doing some continuing education work in addition

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to practicing on the WakeMed physicians training team.

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And so that was a great experience to be able to teach physicians some of the ways in which

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we use drugs in patients, while at the same time having residents, fellows, students on

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the pharmacy side co-learn in such a teaching environment.

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So that was fantastic.

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And then moved into more of a leadership role as associate director or pharmacotherapy services

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director by creating experiences for our students in the Wake County region, about a nine-county

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region.

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That's how UNC train their students, similar to how they train the physicians on clock

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shifts.

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And so after that was done, we were able to have this opportunity to do the same thing

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at a different state, so University of Maryland Baltimore.

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I was there as associate director and then eventually assistant dean, so about over four

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years.

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I was really growing the experiential component of the student pharmacist learning opportunities

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there and that scope covered the entire state.

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So that was a privilege to be able to serve the institution in that way.

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And after completing that, I had the distinct opportunity to serve as dean of Howard University

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College of Pharmacy for about six years.

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So that was in DC and then came here.

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Not too long, so six years after completing dean, I had the opportunity to come to Albany

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College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences to serve as president and professor.

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So it's been a journey.

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It's been just a privilege to serve people all through that journey.

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Yeah.

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Dr. Safade, thank you so much, and as you are sharing your journey, I'm struck, I think,

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by the number of institutions that you've had the opportunity to serve.

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Now sometimes people talk about when you stay at the same institution, there are advantages,

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right?

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Because there's deep knowledge of the institution, there's so many people you know, you've had

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the opportunity to move from place to place.

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Talk about some of the advantages in your career of doing these moves and some of the

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disadvantages you feel like may have come from moving.

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Some of the advantages of staying in the same location is the upward mobility that it might

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provide, and really just growing roots, strengthening the work and the projects you might have done

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there.

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And one of the things that my dad always told me is, you know, when the applause is loudest

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and that's when you have to consider leaving.

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I think what that translates to is you have to assess yourself and the accomplishments

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that you have, you know, been able to establish right in that location or institution or committee

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or wherever it is you're referring to.

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And ask the question, am I done?

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Done not in the sense of frustration or done in the sense of, ugh, let's go.

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But thinking about, can I outdo myself here?

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At least that's the question that I ask myself is, is there anything else?

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How can I top this?

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Because I'm very goal driven.

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I try to serve the institution with all my heart, soul, and mind as much as possible.

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And so there comes a time when you realize, you know, A, there might be somebody who can

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do better here and I don't have that skill set to take it to the next level that I think

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it needs to go, or I have maxed out what I believe my capacity is able to accomplish

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and in alignment with long-term goals and long-term impact, it is a mutually win-win

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benefit to move to a different institution.

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For everybody, that's different.

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For everybody, it varies.

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So I'm grateful that for me, for each move, it has aligned nicely with what was necessary

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and it was very positive actually for everyone that I have served so far.

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And I'm just grateful and honored to have served each and every one of these institutions

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to the best of my ability and to leave it in a place where you can say was better than

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when you met it.

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I love it.

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Thank you for sharing that.

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What I hear also in what you're sharing is even if we don't think about it as leaving

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institutions, I mean, even within institutions, people move from position to position and

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thinking about have you maxed out the benefit in that position and is it time to move to

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the next position?

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So even if you're not moving institutions, it sounds to me like it's a great, it's always

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great to assess and say I've been doing this for a long time, what's the next level and

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am I the right person to bring this position to the next level?

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So thank you for sharing that.

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My pleasure.

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Okay.

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So I want to get into a story in my life where you were very crucial and I've talked about

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it a couple of times on this podcast episode.

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So my audience is somewhat familiar, but I got to a place in my career where I was ready

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to quit medicine or at least I was ready to quit all of academia.

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And we had a conversation, that was a very pivotal conversation.

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And I have to say, I want to say that at the time that I was experiencing all these challenges,

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I didn't think, oh, I have a mentor who at the time you were dean, I didn't think, oh,

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I have a mentor who's dean of the college of pharmacy.

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Why don't I go talk to her?

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Because it didn't seem to me as if you, I mean, it was clinical medicine, but it became

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really important and relevant because in your journey in academia, you've had challenges

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too.

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So you shared challenges with me that changed the way I thought about my challenges.

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So the first question I want to ask you to speak to or answer is this whole concept of

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mentoring across disciplines.

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How should people really be thinking about their network of mentors, sponsors, and especially

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in terms of thinking about the transdisciplinary mentorship or across professions?

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So there are certain fundamental challenges that every discipline will face.

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And it comes to a point in your journey or growth in your career where it's no longer

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about the science or the fundamental knowledge of medicine or pharmacy, in my case, that

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is determining what you're facing, that you call challenges.

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And when we're able to sort of separate those two, your fundamental training as an MD versus

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a PharmD or perhaps an engineer even, and the root cause of the challenges, which many

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times are very different from the training, then you cease to see yourself as, oh, their

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medicine, their pharmacy.

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You see yourselves as co-leaders growing on a ladder, and in each rung of those ladders,

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there are challenges you are going to face that will be common all across the board,

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regardless of whether you're a lawyer or what.

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And the trick is really your interactions with people and how successful you are with

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that because IRN is going to be similar, right?

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The challenges with offers, benefits, those kinds of things, the details might be different,

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but how you approach those would likely be similar, right?

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Then when you get to how to manage people in an organization, people are people are

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people are people.

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And if we knew people fully, there'll be no wars in the entire world, right?

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But that's why we have to keep learning.

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That's why we have to keep sharpening our knowledge around dealing with conflict, dealing

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with challenges, dealing with managing envy, sabotage, or the four horsemen, for example,

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really just dealing with people.

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It's people.

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And people challenges in every single institution is similar.

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And so it's a matter of then separating that out and saying, hmm, what am I dealing with

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here?

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And as you, a physician, you try to diagnose what the situation, what's the people challenge

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that I'm facing here.

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And when you can identify what that people challenge is, then you can approach it with

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the same way you would approach it, whether it be an engineering or lawyer fields that

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presents itself because people are still people.

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Yeah, no, that's really good.

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It's really good because I think that we do think very siloed and there's this sense that,

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well, you're not a physician.

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You can't understand my problems.

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And yes, the details are different, but the general challenges are similar.

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And so maybe this is a good time to speak about how should people be thinking about

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curating their network of sponsors, of mentors, because I meet a lot of faculty who say, I

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don't have a mentor.

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And maybe what they're saying is I don't have a research mentor.

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I don't have a mentor who's exactly my discipline, but nobody comes as far as you come without

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mentors.

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And so maybe speak to how should people be thinking about curating their networks of

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mentors and sponsors?

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One of the advice that I give our students and anyone I get a chance to meet, young professionals,

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is to have at least six to eight mentors.

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What that means is you have to be able to build relationships.

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If you can't build relationships, you're dead in the water because it's the people that

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you interact with.

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It's the people who care about you, the people who see your work, your growth that will eventually

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choose to either guide you, show you where the stones are, so to speak, or say, oh, I

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know this individual.

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She's nice and she's very accommodating and she's brilliant and she would be good for

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X or Y or Z. Those are your sponsors.

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Those people who will speak to your capabilities when you can't be there.

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But if you haven't already built that network over the years, then it won't be able to

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serve you when you actually need them.

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So the advice about curating those, to curate that network of mentors and sponsors is think

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about everybody in front of you as a potential person who either you are meant to serve or

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they might be there to serve you in the future.

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If you see everybody in front of you and every relationship as critical, that there's a reason

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for it, there's a purpose for it, you will be intentional about how you interact with

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people generally.

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Now you don't want to talk to folks because you think, oh, can you be my mentor?

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I remember I was in that phase at one point in time and I thought, oh, I need a mentor

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and I was really desperate to try to get a mentor.

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And then I began to learn that that's not how it works.

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In fact, most people are spooked by the word mentor because they feel like there is this

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huge responsibility that they have to accomplish and they have these expectations.

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And you know, academics too, we can layer on top of it.

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First month you do this, second month you do this, third month you do this, otherwise

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you'll be evaluated and you're going to be, you know, maybe you've done a bad job.

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And then people are just like, I'd rather have nothing to do with that.

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My advice to many of the people that I've interacted with is just build relationships.

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Don't label it.

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Do not label it.

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Don't put pressure on it.

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It's almost like dating in many ways where the moment you start putting labels on things

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and things start falling apart, don't put a label on it.

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Just build a relationship.

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If it's happening, it's happening.

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If it's not happening, it's not happening.

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Don't worry about it.

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I've had, I'm going to give a couple of examples.

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One example, I had a meeting with the vice president and one of my institutions in the

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past, and I hadn't even met her before.

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This was the very first time I'd just been promoted to assistant dean and I was trying

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to do a job and I needed to meet her to learn something to get the job done.

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And so I sat in her, in her office and she was about to share with me and give me insights

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into the task and the project I was working on for the first 30 minutes of that meeting.

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She's retired now.

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For the first 30 minutes of that meeting, she was just downloading about how to be an

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executive and how to be successful as an executive female.

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And I just took my notepad and my pen and I just kept writing pages and pages before

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we even got down to business.

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And that was the season when I actually was thinking about, oh, I need a mentor.

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I need a mentor.

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I never met her before.

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I didn't even, I can't even remember her name now, but that was it.

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That was the opening into here is information you've been looking for.

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Now I'm a person of faith, so I had been praying about this, obviously, to say, Lord, please

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help me.

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And I remember that word that came, which was I am that I am.

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I will be your mentor.

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Now that sounds crazy, but that relaxed me to see that I needed to just open my mind

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to understand that the people that I thought would be my best mentors or that would be

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a best fit for me may not necessarily be the ones that will give me the information that

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I needed.

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And I tell you, after she was, she told me conferences I needed to attend, ways I need

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to posture myself, how I needed to present.

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I was full.

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30 minutes, I was full.

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Then we went to business, we were done.

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Shortly after that, she retired.

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We got maybe one other chance, I took out to lunch just so that I could learn some more.

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Mentors, you have to notice and make sure you're serving them for them to serve you.

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So you don't have a sense of expectation or entitlement.

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They're giving you valued time.

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So you have to think about that.

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Can you take them out to coffee and have a conversation?

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You don't have to put too much, but learn about what they care about.

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And then before you know it, they start sharing things that you need.

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The second example that I will share, I was at a conference in Croatia and I was with

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this colleague, friend is how I will call her.

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She was a systems leader and she was also at that conference.

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She's from Australia.

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And we were supposed to go into a session and I had just gotten my role as dean and

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I was just casually sharing the news that, oh, you know, that, you know, dean now and

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so on and so forth.

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Meanwhile, before that time I had met with, because it was a new role for me, I just randomly

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five minutes would meet with people who I knew were deans and just ask them simple questions.

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And I say, knowing what you know now, what do you wish you knew before becoming a dean?

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And I tell you that opened up a whole set of tips and tricks that 20 deans were able

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to share with me.

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I'll just meet them casually one on one.

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That didn't require a whole mentoring protocol.

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It was information that was going to solidify my foundation before getting into the deanship.

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And it was so valuable because there were 20 different deans, male, female, different

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races, you know, that were sharing with me.

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And I valued that.

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So back to the Croatia example.

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So when I went there, I just, you know, told her, oh, this is going on and so on and so

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forth.

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Somebody I respect so much internationally known.

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And she said something.

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And here's the trick about mentorship, right?

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You have to know when it's about to happen and you have to be willing to sacrifice whatever

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necessary to get what is about to happen and position yourself for what's about to happen

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to you.

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And so she said, we're about to go into the next session.

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We're going to coffee break, you know, 15, 20 minute coffee break.

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We're about to go into the next session.

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I said, would you like to take a few minutes and I could just spend some time with you?

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And I was thinking like, what?

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Yes, ma'am.

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Absolutely.

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And so I just stayed.

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We were right there on a bistro table.

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The session had resumed.

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And I kid you not, we were there for at least an hour.

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At least an hour.

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She was willing to, let me tell you, if I had to pay for that session, I don't know

286
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how much it would have cost, but she was willing.

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Time and opportunity.

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You have to know when it's happening and make sure your position to receive whatever is

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there for you.

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And I sat there and we stood initially, then we had to move a location to sit because it

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was getting so good.

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And for a whole hour, she just started downloading examples, experiences, how to, and she pretty

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much laid the landscape, how people will approach me in my beginning weeks and so on and so

294
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forth and how to not take the first impressions that you get from your new role.

295
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Very valuable wisdom.

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Eventually, she offered that because one of the tips they tell you is you technically

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want to be careful about sharing details, particularly if you're in a decision-making

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type of role like Adine, with individuals in the exact same institution you are because

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it's going to spread.

300
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People will talk about what you're saying to other people.

301
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And so being that she was in an institution that the likelihood of her knowing anybody

302
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in the institution I was in was slim, it was a safer bet to have somebody like her.

303
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And she offered herself.

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So 6 p.m., 7 p.m. in Eastern time was 9 a.m. or 8 a.m. early morning in Australia time.

305
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And we will meet every other month just to debrief if there were any challenges that

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I had, I could bring it to her and she would help tease it out based on her experience

307
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because she'd been doing this a minute.

308
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I am grateful, grateful to God for people like that who just offered their time.

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And said that there are individuals who are available to mentor you for a fee and there's

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nothing wrong in that.

311
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Value their time, respect their time, bring the questions you have to the session so that

312
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you can get the value that you need.

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I've had to do that as well, to have a coach type individual.

314
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So it was almost like a coach slash mentor.

315
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Because they've done the work right, they can help you tease out and really give you

316
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the 10,000 foot view you need to have concerning what you're doing.

317
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So I'm going to stop there, but it's a lot.

318
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It's very important.

319
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Make sure you have mentors.

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Make sure you are sensitive to when somebody is trying to give you wisdom.

321
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Don't think you're smarter than anyone.

322
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You'll be surprised what kinds of information is out there that can make your work go faster.

323
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Thank you.

324
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,280
Thank you.

325
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:48,280
I got so much from what you said.

326
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,680
I just want to make some of those things explicit.

327
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So one of the first things I got is the sense of not being desperate, not feeling like there's

328
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only one person for you.

329
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And so you go with that desperate energy to scare people out of your path.

330
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It's just really thinking about the fact that you're cultivating relationships and you're

331
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thinking in every relationship, how do I serve this person?

332
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This person may be here to serve me.

333
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How do I meet my end of the bargain rate?

334
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Because that's what I'm in control of.

335
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And so really thinking of people as just how do I build good relationships?

336
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And that takes the pressure off those, I need you to be my mentor.

337
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And it allows you to be a more normal human.

338
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You didn't say that, but that's what I got out of it.

339
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And then the other thing that I also hear is that it seems as if people in these positions

340
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are wanting to pour out.

341
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And they're just looking for people who are open and available.

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And I will want you to speak in a few minutes about whether that had anything to do with,

343
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because you talked a lot about women, I heard.

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And so I wonder if perhaps you had some male examples or whether there was a sense of this

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person is kind of sharing the same experiences as me and therefore I feel like I really need

346
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to invest.

347
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So I wonder if there's some of that.

348
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But it does sound like people who are in positions ahead of us, mentors that we're looking to,

349
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are really looking to pour out into people.

350
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And the moment they have opportunity, they want to do that.

351
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And we have to be willing to recognize it and to be available to take advantage of that.

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And then I think the third thing I heard you say is just the openness of mentoring can

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happen in different ways.

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And if you're just in a one track mind of it has to be a meeting with this person every

355
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week, you may miss mentoring opportunities that may be one-off mentoring opportunities,

356
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that may be invitations to have continued relationships of mentoring, but mentoring

357
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can come in different formats and so people should stay open.

358
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So you said a lot of things, but those are three things I wanted to say.

359
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And I don't know if he wanted to just reflect or share any thoughts that come from that.

360
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I think that's concise.

361
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That's very good.

362
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:54,880
So the one thing you mentioned around whether individuals are open to mentoring, it depends.

363
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There's some folks who are at a stage in their life where they are ready to leave a legacy

364
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and they're hoping to identify proteges that will be willing to take on the mantle, so

365
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to speak, to take that baton and go to the next level.

366
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And they will be intentional about identifying said individual or individuals to mentor in

367
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a very deliberate way.

368
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Maybe they're going to end up being the next VP or the next president or the next name

369
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that title.

370
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There are other folks who have that grace, so to speak, or skill set of just raising

371
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leaders.

372
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They know how to do it.

373
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They identify potential leaders and they just pour in generously.

374
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Not too many people are like that, but when you encounter one of those, just be grateful

375
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and don't compare yourself with the other person who they might be mentoring as well.

376
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Because the historical way of succession planning has been there's one person who's going to

377
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take over the company and then everybody is scrambling to be the one.

378
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And that creates envy and that creates a lot of toxicity in the environment.

379
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I encourage leaders, my approach is really to share generously because you never know

380
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who is going to apply the information that you are sharing.

381
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But if you share generously, then every single person, it's like the tide that raises all

382
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boats, so to speak.

383
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If everybody gets to the level of superstar leader, the organization benefits tremendously.

384
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But if you pour and spend all your energy on one person and that person disappoints

385
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you, then you've wasted your time in the sense that that person is not going to work out.

386
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Now the organization is still where it was before.

387
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So I encourage all leaders to have the mindset of raising leaders, period.

388
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Now, when you get to the point of how do I begin to identify potential succession individuals

389
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you have to have a knack for talent and leaders have to observe and really be intentional

390
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,200
about encouraging individuals to attend more training.

391
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:27,440
Now you can offer someone training, but if they don't think they need training, then

392
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they miss out.

393
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So it's a very complex field if you think about it in that way.

394
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You might see 10 people who have potential and you share with them and say, look, there's

395
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this training opportunity in X institution that would like you to attend.

396
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And the individuals, maybe only two of them attend.

397
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Whereas you identify 10, guess what?

398
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Those two have distinguished themselves to be at a different caliber than the ones that

399
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,760
you had identified though in the same class, so to speak.

400
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Now that's one thing that many rising stars don't realize.

401
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,640
Follow instructions.

402
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,540
Listen to the leaders who've been there, done that and are telling you things.

403
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:16,080
Even if you think it's minute and insignificant, there is a reason why they are sharing what

404
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,280
they're sharing with you.

405
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,280
I've learned that.

406
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,520
I've learned that.

407
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:25,200
And I take very seriously every single piece of advice that my mentors have provided me

408
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,200
over the years.

409
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,200
I write it down.

410
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,920
I go back before I go back to meet my mentor, whoever I've identified as a mentor, even

411
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,200
before they call themselves my mentor.

412
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,560
And I've seen that, look, here is something regular coming from this individual.

413
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,280
I make sure to be accountable.

414
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,480
I go back to them and I say, you told me during our last minute to read this book.

415
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,560
I read the book.

416
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,740
I thank you.

417
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:50,360
This is what I learned from it so that they can see that the investment of time in my

418
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,960
life is worth it.

419
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,080
So that next time they would consider something else that they want to add value for me.

420
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,200
So I encourage mentors to think about that.

421
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,680
I mean mentees, excuse me.

422
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,080
You want to be a star mentee?

423
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Listen to that mentor.

424
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,800
Hold yourself accountable before your next meeting.

425
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,480
Let them know what you have done since the last time.

426
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,960
Don't waste anybody's time.

427
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,240
Please don't tell them from the last time we met, you told me this, this, and this.

428
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,800
This is what's been going on.

429
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,920
This is what has happened.

430
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:21,920
This is what I've done differently.

431
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,240
I'm teaching my boys the same thing, you know, that when they meet with folks to make sure

432
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:33,240
that they follow the instructions that whoever is mentoring them is sharing with them.

433
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,600
Thank you.

434
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,600
Thank you.

435
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,120
That's really valuable and thank you for sharing so much wisdom.

436
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:46,040
I want you to talk about obstacles now because, you know, in my conversations with you over

437
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,800
the years and even in the last few years, you know, you seem to indicate that obstacles

438
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,800
are part of the course, they're part for the course.

439
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,240
And so where I think I felt like, oh my gosh, this is too hard.

440
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,280
It was like, oh yeah, this is the way it is.

441
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Can you just speak to obstacles and the role that they have to play, especially the, I

442
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,000
don't want to say people obstacles because I mean, all obstacles really are, are really

443
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,120
about relationships, I think.

444
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,480
But can you speak to their role in our growth and development and how we should be looking

445
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:22,320
at them, especially for, for people who feel like this is not working and I want to quit?

446
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,080
Yeah.

447
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:31,040
So the obstacles that you face, they say, you know, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

448
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,040
Yes.

449
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,080
Obstacles can help us build resilience.

450
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:40,920
It also helps us build experience and it helps us learn and that learning can eventually

451
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,840
become wisdom.

452
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:49,560
So for example, you face a situation, maybe it's a difficult employee, employer, peer,

453
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:57,240
whatever that is personality, and you're just wondering how in the world am I going to survive

454
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,440
with said individual in my life or in this job.

455
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,960
If you want to quit because of somebody, let me tell you, when you go to the next place,

456
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,080
you might find five people worse than that individual in that job that you think is better

457
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,660
than the one you have.

458
00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:14,960
Because during the interview, you're not going to know every single person you're trying

459
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,920
to interact with.

460
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:22,800
And so the approach that I have taken, particularly when it becomes people challenges is to try

461
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:32,360
to understand, seek to understand, try not to get sucked up in the emotional approach,

462
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,360
presentation of the individual triggers, try to focus on what's objective.

463
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,840
What are they trying to tell me?

464
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,560
What feedback are they giving me?

465
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,920
I remember a lady who many people in one of the organizations had been married when the

466
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,740
organization had said so many negative things about.

467
00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:57,560
And the feedback I received from the individual was valuable, so much so that it seemed like

468
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,600
they would always come off negative and so on and so forth.

469
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:08,520
And I just would think, okay, if this were 2% true, that's one of the things they tell

470
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,720
us in our coaching classes is think about the 2% truth instead of just writing off the

471
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,320
feedback you're receiving is what's the 2% truth here?

472
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,960
That way you're not taking it personal.

473
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,560
You're trying to be as objective as necessary.

474
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:29,480
And after looking at things in that way, I found that when we would have meetings, I

475
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,840
would ask the question, what could go wrong?

476
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,280
And I could count on this individual to name at least a few things that would go wrong

477
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,120
in the plan.

478
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,400
But what I also did was it allowed my plan to be better.

479
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:44,400
Why?

480
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:51,040
Because you have included the reasons for it to go wrong and you have come up with solutions

481
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,440
for those reasons for it to go wrong.

482
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,440
So next time you have what people consider a naysayer, they might be the ones that are

483
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,080
going to strengthen your plan the best.

484
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,620
So that way you've had the positive outlook of what your plan is, what could go right.

485
00:32:06,620 --> 00:32:08,800
This has such great potential.

486
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,120
That's good.

487
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,400
And then you look at it on the other side of things to see what could go wrong.

488
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,720
So that's where you start strengthening the risky parts of your plan.

489
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,720
And don't give up.

490
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,440
It's like, okay, what is the solution to that?

491
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,760
Well, the sky is going to fall and everybody, okay, how can we keep the sky from falling?

492
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,840
Or if the sky is going to fall anyway, how can we create, is it umbrellas or is it a

493
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:39,740
little shed to make sure everybody's protected, to think about the contingency plans to whatever

494
00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,520
it is that comes forth.

495
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,440
And it just makes you a better administrator because you've thought of it from the positive

496
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,200
extreme and you've planned through the negative extreme as well.

497
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,760
And in the process, you've included the ideas of the individuals.

498
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,400
And so it's a little bit more robust in terms of the plan that you have.

499
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,400
Wow.

500
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:01,400
Wow.

501
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,400
That's really, really powerful.

502
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,400
Thank you so much.

503
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:04,400
That's so insightful.

504
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,640
So here are a couple of things that come out for me.

505
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:13,320
But one is that I hear you saying that the agent who needs change is you.

506
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,960
Where if someone, even if they're so negative, is sharing something that's upsetting, it's

507
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,720
like, well, what are they saying that I can actually make use of?

508
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,160
And let's focus on that.

509
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,960
And where I think our tendency, at least I'll speak for myself, my tendency is to say, well,

510
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,080
look at the 98%, this person is clearly awful.

511
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,960
But to say, okay, well, this 2%, how do we use this to our advantage?

512
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,680
And so I hear you talking about opportunities to say, well, if someone is entirely negative,

513
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,440
how can you take advantage of that negativity to say, well, tell me all the negatives so

514
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,440
I can prepare?

515
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,440
Right?

516
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:49,680
And it's just, how do you best manage yourself so that you're able to really help people

517
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,720
serve you to their best advantage?

518
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,240
Whether other people might see it as negative, you're able to use the negative to your advantage.

519
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,240
That's amazing.

520
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,440
And I think that's an opportunity to grow, to be able to say, well, what can I take from

521
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,040
this person even if most of it feels like it's negative?

522
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,040
So that's one thing.

523
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:14,600
I think another thing that I hear you saying is kind of the importance of wanting all the

524
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,600
sides.

525
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,240
And so it's not wanting people who are always saying, well, great, everything is going great,

526
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:25,440
but really soliciting, and sometimes you don't have to solicit it, it comes free of charge,

527
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,240
but soliciting feedback from people who do have negative things to say, because it allows

528
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:35,960
you to really build a more realistic real world plan that is able to withstand either

529
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,560
extremes, the extremes of great or the extremes of not so great.

530
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,820
And then I think the third thing I heard you say is that, wow, if you think that you're

531
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:48,000
having a challenge with someone in one place, you have to recognize that that person is

532
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,720
going to be at your next place, even if it's not that same person.

533
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:55,160
And so you have to ask, well, how do I manage that person here?

534
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,820
So then I know I'm equipped to manage the other person there.

535
00:34:57,820 --> 00:35:02,980
But I also hear you saying in the background of that, do not quit a job because of a person,

536
00:35:02,980 --> 00:35:05,440
because that's not a great reason to do that.

537
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,760
Do you want to speak more about that?

538
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,400
Yeah, the question to ask is, what am I supposed to learn here?

539
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,200
What am I supposed to learn in this scenario?

540
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,560
I remember feeling that someone was trying to sabotage my work, at least that's the perception

541
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,280
that I had in one of the institutions I had.

542
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,320
That was the view that I had, and I had to go search.

543
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,160
How do you deal with saboteurs in an organization?

544
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:36,960
And the message from it, and I think it was HBR, one of those really wonderful newsletters

545
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,640
or so, was that you focus on your work.

546
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,660
Just stay focused on your work.

547
00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:47,800
Don't get sucked into what the person is doing or not doing or how they're trying to pull

548
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,600
things down, so to speak.

549
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,600
Just stay focused.

550
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,380
And when you get results, the results will speak for themselves.

551
00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:58,760
And that's what I've learned all through the years, and I've found that I've been able

552
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:08,080
to mentor individuals because of that experience that I've had, to say, don't get sucked in.

553
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,420
You focus on your work.

554
00:36:10,420 --> 00:36:11,420
Get the results.

555
00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:16,600
The results will speak.

556
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,600
That's one example.

557
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:18,600
No, it's good.

558
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:19,600
It's good, and thank you for sharing.

559
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,740
What I hear you talking about is the importance of self-management.

560
00:36:22,740 --> 00:36:24,140
That's so important.

561
00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:28,600
And being able to be self-aware enough to say, well, okay, well, maybe I think someone's

562
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,440
sabotaging my work instead of yelling at this person or saying, you saboteur, you.

563
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,320
Saying, well, how do people manage saboteurs?

564
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,760
Because this is not the first time.

565
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,320
Obviously, this is happening.

566
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,160
And being kind of aware enough to say, well, let me go find out information that helps

567
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,620
you grow so that the next time you face a saboteur, you're not thrown for a loop.

568
00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:48,620
You know what to do.

569
00:36:48,620 --> 00:36:53,780
So it's kind of the importance of focusing on what you control rather than the things

570
00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:54,780
you don't control.

571
00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:55,780
Absolutely.

572
00:36:55,780 --> 00:36:56,780
You could summarize it.

573
00:36:56,780 --> 00:36:57,780
You could write a book on this now.

574
00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:58,780
Thank you.

575
00:36:58,780 --> 00:36:59,780
Thank you.

576
00:36:59,780 --> 00:37:00,780
Thank you.

577
00:37:00,780 --> 00:37:03,460
No, it's really great.

578
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:05,140
I feel like you have so many great points.

579
00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:09,780
And to be honest, there's so many more nuances to what you're saying.

580
00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:14,260
And yeah, but those are at least some of the highlights I want to highlight for my audience.

581
00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:15,260
Wow.

582
00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:19,460
So I want to first of all say thank you so much, President Tafare.

583
00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:23,820
Your time is so precious, and I appreciate that you spent it with me and my audience.

584
00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:29,140
And I do want to ask before we close the conversation though, what have we left on set?

585
00:37:29,140 --> 00:37:35,060
What is something that's important for early career faculty to be thinking about on their

586
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:38,220
journey in academia?

587
00:37:38,220 --> 00:37:46,500
Be humble, be willing to learn, and don't discriminate against who can teach you.

588
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:52,020
Anybody can teach you, no matter their age, no matter their experience, no matter their

589
00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:55,220
gender or identity.

590
00:37:55,220 --> 00:37:56,980
Anybody can teach you.

591
00:37:56,980 --> 00:37:58,140
Be open.

592
00:37:58,140 --> 00:38:00,680
Just be open to learn.

593
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,860
And if you're open to learn, you're more likely to grow as fast as you'd be surprised what

594
00:38:05,860 --> 00:38:08,980
you can accomplish when you learn from people.

595
00:38:08,980 --> 00:38:11,260
That's what I've seen.

596
00:38:11,260 --> 00:38:17,260
It's those individuals who humble themselves, receive information from mentors or even just

597
00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:20,220
general advice, hallway advice.

598
00:38:20,220 --> 00:38:25,260
Remember the advice that I received where someone said, oh, you have to make sure you

599
00:38:25,260 --> 00:38:30,780
publish two papers every, at least two papers a year, right, to be able to qualify for professorship.

600
00:38:30,780 --> 00:38:33,060
And I was like, is that right?

601
00:38:33,060 --> 00:38:34,940
So I just stuck that in my brain.

602
00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:40,300
I don't think it's written anywhere in stone, but it's that general advice people give.

603
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:48,460
And if you build your system to the point where you're very productive with publications,

604
00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:49,740
then people notice.

605
00:38:49,740 --> 00:38:51,380
The results will show.

606
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:56,020
You wouldn't have to lobby for, I'm worth it, it's my time.

607
00:38:56,020 --> 00:38:59,180
The results will show, and then it becomes a slam dunk in the end.

608
00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:03,260
So there's a lot to be said, but I just wanted to wrap it up there.

609
00:39:03,260 --> 00:39:04,260
Yeah.

610
00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:05,260
No, thank you.

611
00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:06,260
Thank you, actually.

612
00:39:06,260 --> 00:39:07,260
I don't want you to wrap it up just yet.

613
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:08,260
Okay.

614
00:39:08,260 --> 00:39:14,660
What might you say differently for people who identify as women?

615
00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:15,660
Yeah.

616
00:39:15,660 --> 00:39:22,820
So one of the things I've learned by attending conferences and listening to presentations

617
00:39:22,820 --> 00:39:28,500
about scholarly activity, growth, and just general leadership and advancement for females

618
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:36,980
is that we as females tend to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

619
00:39:36,980 --> 00:39:46,740
Whereas our male counterparts are more likely to take risks and to allow the good to help

620
00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:47,820
spur them along.

621
00:39:47,820 --> 00:39:56,380
So for example, if there were a job out there that a female looked at it and said, well,

622
00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:57,820
I'm not quite 80%.

623
00:39:57,820 --> 00:40:01,620
I can't do, you know, I'm maybe just 60% of this.

624
00:40:01,620 --> 00:40:07,820
You'll feel comfortable taking the job or applying for the job if she feels like, yeah,

625
00:40:07,820 --> 00:40:09,580
I can do about 80% of this.

626
00:40:09,580 --> 00:40:10,580
Let's go for it.

627
00:40:10,580 --> 00:40:12,140
Whereas a guy will say, 60%?

628
00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:13,180
Ah, let's go.

629
00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:14,180
Let's go.

630
00:40:14,180 --> 00:40:19,940
And then we find, and I'm not trying to overgeneralize, yes, there are equity issues out there and

631
00:40:19,940 --> 00:40:23,980
there's so much that needs to be fixed with pay and all that good stuff.

632
00:40:23,980 --> 00:40:29,600
But there are some observations that I have seen even as a leader for how females approach

633
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,440
offers.

634
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,060
Not many females negotiate, even the smart ones.

635
00:40:36,060 --> 00:40:45,300
Whereas some guys who may not even have the same expertise as same female believe in that

636
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:47,260
they deserve more.

637
00:40:47,260 --> 00:40:48,260
Why is that?

638
00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:49,980
I don't have an answer.

639
00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:53,740
It's just my observation from my few years of leadership.

640
00:40:53,740 --> 00:40:59,100
So I want to encourage our females out there is to believe in yourself.

641
00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:02,860
Talk to somebody who has gone ahead of you.

642
00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:08,900
Have them coach you through what to be asking for and what to expect and what to say and

643
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:10,740
what not to say.

644
00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:14,220
Simple advice somebody gave me is don't take the first offer that's out there, regardless

645
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:16,100
of whether you think it's a good one.

646
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:17,100
Don't.

647
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:22,100
And that can be scary sometimes, but I just learned that through listening to people who've

648
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:23,580
gone through.

649
00:41:23,580 --> 00:41:28,260
And then I strongly encourage females that you should have male mentors.

650
00:41:28,260 --> 00:41:29,860
I'm not saying you shouldn't have female mentors.

651
00:41:29,860 --> 00:41:33,580
Make sure that part of your suite of six to eight that you have male mentors.

652
00:41:33,580 --> 00:41:37,620
There's a different way that guys look at things.

653
00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:40,660
Sometimes as females we get sucked in the emotion around it.

654
00:41:40,660 --> 00:41:44,780
It makes us really good leaders actually is what I've observed.

655
00:41:44,780 --> 00:41:48,220
But there are times when you just have to do it and just have to go.

656
00:41:48,220 --> 00:41:56,220
One guy asked me this question and he said, if you didn't have to worry about anything,

657
00:41:56,220 --> 00:42:00,300
what would you do?

658
00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:02,940
I wrote it on a little sticky note.

659
00:42:02,940 --> 00:42:08,620
I put it in front of my computer and I look at it every day.

660
00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:13,260
If you didn't have to worry about anything, what would you do?

661
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:16,660
As females many times we have the guilt problem.

662
00:42:16,660 --> 00:42:17,660
Guilt.

663
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:24,860
We are the most sacrificial individuals I know, or species I know, and still we're feeling

664
00:42:24,860 --> 00:42:26,140
guilty about it.

665
00:42:26,140 --> 00:42:30,060
It's just amazing.

666
00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:35,420
If you have somebody to say, that's why you need those people to help keep you objective

667
00:42:35,420 --> 00:42:37,500
to say, look, look at what you're doing.

668
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:38,500
You're amazing.

669
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:39,600
You're doing fantastic over here.

670
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,500
This is what you need to do next.

671
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:45,340
That individual who asked me that question was a male.

672
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:53,340
I looked at him and after looking at that question I saw that he was trying to say that

673
00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:55,260
I was holding myself back.

674
00:42:55,260 --> 00:43:01,020
The worst challenge, the worst obstacle we have as females is ourselves.

675
00:43:01,020 --> 00:43:06,540
Let me tell you, if I were to talk to my younger self, and that's why I spend a lot of time

676
00:43:06,540 --> 00:43:10,780
with younger people is don't be so hard on yourself.

677
00:43:10,780 --> 00:43:17,260
I told a lady yesterday, a very young lady I have respect for, she's finishing up her

678
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:18,260
undergraduate.

679
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:19,260
Brilliant lady.

680
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:24,340
She's going to graduate a four-year program in under four years and she's still hard

681
00:43:24,340 --> 00:43:25,340
on herself.

682
00:43:25,340 --> 00:43:28,340
I said, honey, don't be so hard on yourself.

683
00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:32,180
I know your type because I'm like that too.

684
00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:34,420
So hard on myself, have high expectations of myself.

685
00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:35,980
I said, don't be so hard.

686
00:43:35,980 --> 00:43:36,980
You're brilliant.

687
00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:38,600
You're a superstar.

688
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:44,980
We need more people to remind ourselves, to remind our females that they're superstars.

689
00:43:44,980 --> 00:43:52,100
One of the things I've had to do even as a president is I was sharing this with some

690
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:53,460
of my female presidents.

691
00:43:53,460 --> 00:43:58,340
I'm a member of a women president's organization and they had come to my college.

692
00:43:58,340 --> 00:43:59,660
They spent time with my students.

693
00:43:59,660 --> 00:44:01,380
It was such a delightful time.

694
00:44:01,380 --> 00:44:04,820
They poured into them and the students were asking questions.

695
00:44:04,820 --> 00:44:06,500
It was just heaven on earth.

696
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:08,500
It was beautiful.

697
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:14,460
One of the things that we were sharing at one point, I said, sometimes with us females,

698
00:44:14,460 --> 00:44:16,100
we're the hardest on ourselves.

699
00:44:16,100 --> 00:44:21,260
You're like Wonder Woman Plus over there and still you think you're a zero.

700
00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:24,060
Seriously?

701
00:44:24,060 --> 00:44:28,080
Sometimes you have to actually type down, and I remember having to do this exercise

702
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,060
at one point, the feedback that people had given me that were positive.

703
00:44:32,060 --> 00:44:37,600
I typed it down on one of my notes and started with the words, you are.

704
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,620
You are one of the most powerful first words.

705
00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:44,700
You can put anything you put after that, negative or positive, can have significant impact.

706
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:48,100
So try and find something positive after that.

707
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:49,100
You are amazing.

708
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:50,100
Okay.

709
00:44:50,100 --> 00:44:51,420
What did so and so say about you?

710
00:44:51,420 --> 00:44:52,700
So and so say you're a good cook.

711
00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:53,700
Okay, put it there.

712
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:54,780
So and so say you're a good leader.

713
00:44:54,780 --> 00:44:55,780
Put it down.

714
00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:59,980
Write the list of everything people have told you because we are also not the ones that

715
00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:01,580
tend to give ourselves good self-talk.

716
00:45:01,580 --> 00:45:03,460
We're not.

717
00:45:03,460 --> 00:45:04,460
Not usually.

718
00:45:04,460 --> 00:45:07,900
So write down everything people have said, even the ones you didn't believe.

719
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:08,900
Just write it down.

720
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:09,900
Make a list.

721
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:13,140
Keep making that list until you feel like you've captured everything people have been

722
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:17,660
telling you that you are this, you are that, the positive things.

723
00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:19,180
Put it down there.

724
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:27,660
And then on the day when you think the hurricane has hit and the tornado came through town

725
00:45:27,660 --> 00:45:32,620
and career-wise, journey-wise, whatever you want to call it, it looks like, ooh, it's

726
00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:34,100
one of those days.

727
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:36,060
Go back to your notes.

728
00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:37,700
Read through it.

729
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:38,700
See what it says.

730
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:42,900
Remind yourself of who you are.

731
00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:48,220
And that should bring a burst of joy and a burst of confidence and a burst of positivity

732
00:45:48,220 --> 00:45:49,220
into your life.

733
00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:53,820
I also encourage females to make sure everybody actually needs this.

734
00:45:53,820 --> 00:45:55,260
Make sure you have a stress toolkit.

735
00:45:55,260 --> 00:46:00,860
Make sure you have a sunshine folder where you can put positive things to help push you

736
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:05,620
through those obstacles, those challenges, those bad days.

737
00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:07,500
Bad days will come.

738
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:08,500
The storm comes.

739
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:10,700
The rain comes.

740
00:46:10,700 --> 00:46:13,260
Summer comes.

741
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:17,140
Summer comes.

742
00:46:17,140 --> 00:46:19,580
And the sun will shine again.

743
00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:23,900
Wow, President Tawthani, thank you so much.

744
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:25,860
It's been such a pleasure talking with you.

745
00:46:25,860 --> 00:46:27,980
I appreciate you sharing your insights.

746
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:29,460
I mean, just so much.

747
00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:31,420
So much I still want to ask you.

748
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:32,900
But we're going to wrap up the show.

749
00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:35,540
I'm going to allow you to go on to your next thing.

750
00:46:35,540 --> 00:46:39,780
But I want to thank you so much for being on the show and just for your words of wisdom.

751
00:46:39,780 --> 00:46:40,980
Thanks for being here.

752
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:42,340
Thank you for having me.

753
00:46:42,340 --> 00:46:44,060
It's my pleasure.

754
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:48,700
Well, for every member of our audience, thank you so much for listening.

755
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:49,700
We look forward to...

756
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:53,740
I look forward to talking with you again next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast.

757
00:46:53,740 --> 00:46:55,580
Thank you for listening.

758
00:46:55,580 --> 00:46:56,580
Thank you.

759
00:46:56,580 --> 00:46:57,580
Okay, don't go anywhere.

760
00:46:57,580 --> 00:46:58,580
Not yet.

761
00:46:58,580 --> 00:47:11,300
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic

762
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:16,700
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

763
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:18,060
have a mentor.

764
00:47:18,060 --> 00:47:24,060
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

765
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:25,940
Someone else needs to hear it.

766
00:47:25,940 --> 00:47:29,980
So take a minute right now and share it.

767
00:47:29,980 --> 00:47:35,460
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

768
00:47:35,460 --> 00:47:41,580
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.