The non-monetary benefits of grant submissions

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,080 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,040 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,540 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be speaking with you today. 14 00:01:10,540 --> 00:01:17,680 Thank you for tuning in and for listening to what I have to say today about grant writing. 15 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,240 So today I'm talking about why grant submissions are not always about the money. 16 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,920 Yep, I said it, grant submissions are not always about the money. 17 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,100 And I hear you saying, what do you mean it's not always about the money? 18 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:31,500 I need money for my program. 19 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:32,960 You absolutely do. 20 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:33,960 I totally agree. 21 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:37,440 And the reason you're writing the grant is because you don't have enough money for your 22 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,480 program because if you did, you wouldn't be writing the grant. 23 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,860 So yes, grant writing is about money, but it's about more than just the money. 24 00:01:45,860 --> 00:01:50,700 And so I'm here to talk to you about five reasons why you should write grants. 25 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:54,480 And I will tell you that when I first started writing grants, I only wrote it because I 26 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:55,480 had to. 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,480 I mean, I really need that. 28 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:57,480 I had to. 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:58,480 I was told to. 30 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,480 They were like, well, this is what you're supposed to do. 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,040 I was like, oh, sure, I'll do it. 32 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,880 Because for many of us, when we start writing grants, we're fellows, we're postdoctoral 33 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:09,880 fellows. 34 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,320 And to be honest, someone's going to pay us whether or not we submit grants. 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,320 So why bother? 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,540 Like, why do you have to do that? 37 00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:20,600 And it's not until you become a faculty member, like leading your own research program where 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,400 you're like, yeah, kind of need the money so I can fund the program. 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,120 And then it becomes very clear why you should continue to submit grant proposals. 40 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,680 But in the beginning, it's hard to get yourself to do it. 41 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,520 And because you're not necessarily, you don't necessarily need the money. 42 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,120 And sometimes, for those of us who are on career development awards, it's like, well, 43 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,600 I have a career development award. 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,600 My time is fully funded. 45 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,160 I don't need more money. 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:43,480 OK, yes. 47 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:49,400 So this is why you should continue to submit grants even when you do not need money. 48 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:55,440 So the first thing that submitting grant gives you that is not necessarily monetary is clarity 49 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,800 of purpose, clarity of purpose. 50 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:59,800 Here you are. 51 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,480 You have a research program. 52 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,200 You have a program of study. 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,400 And you have all these great ideas. 54 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,080 And they're swirling in your head. 55 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,080 And they're lovely. 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,080 You could do this. 57 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,640 You could do that. 58 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:14,720 Or maybe you could do this and that together. 59 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,040 They're so beautiful, except that they're not really concrete. 60 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,120 They're not really clear. 61 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:27,600 And what writing a grant proposal allows you to do is to commit to what you really want 62 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:28,600 to do. 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:29,600 Like, what is it? 64 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,440 Like, you know, there's this wishful thinking that's involved in all these great ideas. 65 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,040 But the moment you commit it to paper, and by paper, I mean the, you know, the document 66 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,960 on your screen, it really forces you to clarify what is fancy, what is whimsical, and what 67 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:45,600 is real. 68 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:46,720 And it forces you. 69 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:52,040 It forces you to be very clear on where you're going and why you should be going in that 70 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,040 direction. 71 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,280 I love it. 72 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,480 I love it because in a sense, it's like I have all these ideas, but they don't become 73 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,180 concrete until I commit them to paper. 74 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:10,520 And so writing a proposal forces you to clearly define your research goals. 75 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,040 It forces you to really commit. 76 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,680 It's like, okay, these are great ideas. 77 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,920 What do you really want to do? 78 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:24,440 And so writing a proposal allows you to really, in a sense, it gives you the accountability 79 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:29,200 because you've set it on paper, all of a sudden it's now real. 80 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,880 You put arms and legs to it. 81 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,520 You say, well, this is the approach we're going to take. 82 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,440 These are the future directions. 83 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,680 It allows you to clearly, clearly define your research goals. 84 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,160 And it gives you focused direction. 85 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,200 Here's one thing that I've seen grant submissions do for me. 86 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:52,940 So the moment I commit it to paper, we start moving in that direction because it's so clear. 87 00:04:52,940 --> 00:04:54,240 It's very clear what we're doing. 88 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,160 It's like, well, why wouldn't we move this project forward today? 89 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,320 Why wait until it starts? 90 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,440 It's funded like a year from now, maybe. 91 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,000 As long as you're able to do that, you do that because it's so clear. 92 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,000 It's a focused direction. 93 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,060 Why wouldn't I go in this direction today to the best of my ability? 94 00:05:11,060 --> 00:05:15,760 And now you may not have as much money as you want to move in direction completely, 95 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,560 but at least you're able to start taking steps towards it because you've clearly defined 96 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:21,560 it. 97 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,980 So the first thing submitting grants gives you that is not necessarily about the money 98 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:29,000 is clarity of purpose. 99 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,920 The second thing it does is it allows you to plan. 100 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,200 I love it because here's the thing. 101 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,520 Again, it's kind of like your ideas are nice and they're cool and everything in your head. 102 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,120 And the moment you put them down on paper, you're like, no, that's not going to fly. 103 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,040 That idea, no, it's not going to fly because it's not practical. 104 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:53,120 In a sense, what it does is it allows you to bring the idea out of the pie in the sky 105 00:05:53,120 --> 00:06:00,800 and put it in the ground and actually dig a hole for it and make space for it. 106 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,640 It forces you to really plan. 107 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,480 So in a sense, it gives you the opportunity to plan your project to say, okay, this is 108 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,760 what we'll do first and then we'll do this and then we'll do this and then we'll do that. 109 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:18,000 So what it gives you is a gift of a comprehensive project plan. 110 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,760 It allows you to set timelines for yourself. 111 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:25,200 It allows you to be very clear about what methods you're going to use, why these methods 112 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,760 work, why you wouldn't use alternate methods. 113 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,480 If this method fails, what other methods you're going to employ. 114 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:36,800 It really allows you to improve your project management because you outline all that you're 115 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,280 going to do. 116 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:42,480 It literally is the, what is the word? 117 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:43,720 It's like your blueprint. 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,560 It's your blueprints for a building. 119 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,400 You can hand it over to someone and they say, okay, this is what you want to do. 120 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,560 We can execute your blueprint. 121 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,120 And it forces you to do that in a way that you wouldn't otherwise have done except that, 122 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,640 well, because you had to submit this proposal, you needed to clarify what that is. 123 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,200 And because of that, it's kind of like if you've ever heard people who talk about goal 124 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:12,520 setting and the importance of committing goals to paper, the importance of having an accountability 125 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,400 plan, grant writing is that. 126 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:21,520 It essentially allows you to commit to paper or to a document on your screen what you're 127 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,120 going to do. 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,160 And it increases the likelihood that you're actually going to be able to do it because 129 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,800 the plan is so clear, it's so concrete, why wouldn't you? 130 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,080 And so it really allows you to do project planning. 131 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,400 And so research planning is reason number two why you should write grants that are not 132 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,440 necessarily about the money. 133 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,440 Okay. 134 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:47,040 Number three is the fact that you've got to go read to write this grant. 135 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,000 You know, you're the expert, you know so much, you know, and the papers are coming out because, 136 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,640 you know, the table of contents for your favorite journals are always coming through your inbox 137 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:02,160 and you're going to meetings, you're learning all along the way, you have insight as to 138 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,520 what's going on in your field. 139 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:10,200 The moment you need to submit a proposal, you've got to really go read the literature, 140 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,160 especially with regard to how it integrates with the work that you're doing. 141 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:16,400 You have to go do it. 142 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:17,400 It's a discipline. 143 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,000 It's an exercise that you have to do. 144 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,840 And as you do it, you're deepening your understanding of the field, you are becoming an expert. 145 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:26,840 It's so awesome. 146 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,440 Okay, there's a kind of expert you are in your clinical space, but the moment you have 147 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:36,040 to go read the literature and you're like, oh, this is what this person, this is how 148 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,000 my work is in communication with the rest of the literature and these are the gaps in 149 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,000 literature. 150 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,640 Like you get to know that because you have to pull these things together and synthesize 151 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,080 them for the proposal. 152 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,440 And again, it's not as if you're not really doing that because as you're giving talks, 153 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,960 you're doing these things, but it really is a really focused strategy for you to say what 154 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:04,200 does the literature say relative to my idea, relative to my project plan. 155 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,040 And it really requires you to really know the literature. 156 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,300 Like you've got to understand it. 157 00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:12,160 And so you really get to know a field that way. 158 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,680 And so one of the things that gives you is just the ability to really become the expert 159 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,360 because you're the one in the literature all the time. 160 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,880 And the more you're spending time submitting proposals, the more you're really thinking, 161 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,920 okay, what's new since the last proposal? 162 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:31,760 How does this new manuscript or new article integrate into what's already known or how 163 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,040 does it challenge what's an existing paradigm? 164 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:40,920 It's really a great intellectual space to really be able to learn so much because you're 165 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,960 writing the proposal that allows you to get a good, good, good deep understanding of the 166 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:46,960 literature. 167 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,520 So that's number three. 168 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:55,600 Number four is that it allows you to become a very, very critical thinker. 169 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,640 And by critical, I don't mean judgmental of your work, though that may be present too, 170 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:05,840 but it really allows you to think critically about your work in relation to the rest of 171 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,120 the work in the literature. 172 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:13,680 You are assessing your plan so many times, especially if you're submitting NIH projects. 173 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,320 You're needing to discuss what's the rigor of the prior research? 174 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,600 What's the rigor of your own research? 175 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,200 And so you critically looking at your own research plan, thinking about, okay, what 176 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,480 are the weaknesses in my approach? 177 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,200 How do we strengthen these gaps? 178 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,320 How do we close these gaps? 179 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,640 How do we identify weaknesses and adjust for these weaknesses? 180 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,560 How do we get other investigators who are stronger in a certain area to be part of this 181 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:43,160 research program? 182 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,880 You have to think through all of these. 183 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,120 And you're thinking all the time about the gaps in the field, but then also gaps in your 184 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,260 knowledge, gaps in your methodology, gaps in your investigator team. 185 00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:59,080 And so you do that because you're trying to pull it together to make a comprehensive, 186 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,480 cohesive proposal. 187 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,640 You're trying to pull together a comprehensive, cohesive proposal, and you really have to 188 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:11,280 think critically about the literature, your research plan, your team of investigators, 189 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,960 whether you're going to be able to pull this off. 190 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,360 And it really is a beautiful thing. 191 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,280 I will tell you, it's so amazing. 192 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,520 When I'm writing proposals and there's a sense that, oh my gosh, I'm creating the future, 193 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,580 and it's not just a future where it's like wishful thinking. 194 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:28,720 It's really a future that's concretely based. 195 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,780 And to be able to do that, you've got to really think critically about all of the advantages 196 00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:39,280 and the disadvantages of your approach and the benefits or the not so great things about 197 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,920 how you're moving the work forward. 198 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,580 I mean, it's just really, it's a beautiful space of critical thinking. 199 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:49,680 And so the gift you give to yourself each time you pull together a proposal is that 200 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,400 you become better at this critical thinking. 201 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,400 You become more creative. 202 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,220 You become more inventive, innovative, because you're really able to pull disparate things 203 00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:03,360 together and make them into one cohesive whole. 204 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,800 It's really beautiful. 205 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,320 Okay. 206 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:14,640 Number five is that while you become a skilled communicator, yes, you do. 207 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,000 Because when we're writing, we're writing these grants, they're complex ideas. 208 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,280 Like none of us is working in a field that's so simple because it was so simple. 209 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,920 You would have solved all the problems anyway, and then you would have nothing to do. 210 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:35,160 But you are really pulling together a complex research proposal, and you're needing to simplify 211 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,040 it. 212 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:43,600 You're needing to simplify it for your audience and be very clear and be persuasive. 213 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,260 And to be able to do that, you've really got to become a skilled communicator. 214 00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:49,520 So it doesn't matter where you start from. 215 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,960 I mean, I thought I was a great writer before I started writing grants, but I know I've 216 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,720 gotten so much better. 217 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,560 And part of my pursuit of writing grants more excellently is that I've gone out and gotten 218 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:01,280 coaching for my writing. 219 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,800 Yes, I've paid to sit down with a writing expert so he can assess my writing and say, 220 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,900 wow, these are the gaps in your writing. 221 00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,640 And so my communication skills are getting better. 222 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:17,880 I'm able to more clearly articulate what I want, where I'm going, how I'm going to get 223 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,400 there because I'm always writing these proposals all the time. 224 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,840 And so really you strengthen your communication skills. 225 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,020 And one thing you also do, you don't just strengthen your writing skills, you also strengthen 226 00:13:29,020 --> 00:13:35,200 your communication skills verbally, because what you're really doing is helping to strengthen 227 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,700 your communication thought pattern. 228 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:38,960 That's what you're doing. 229 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,560 And so yes, you're able to bring your communication thought pattern and immerse it in your writing 230 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,880 because that's primarily what you're doing when you're submitting these proposals. 231 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,040 But the more you're thinking critically about your research, the more you're kind of pulling 232 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:57,200 these disparate ideas together and creating a cohesive whole, the better a thinker you're 233 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,680 becoming and so that more clearly you're able to communicate about your science. 234 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,120 The more clearly you're able to communicate the research. 235 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:10,400 When you go to pull together a talk, you can communicate more clearly because of the work 236 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,600 you've already been doing as you've been pulling together the literature to write a very clear 237 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,920 and compelling and concise grant. 238 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,840 So yes, your communication skills increase and you know what, you're always writing other 239 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:22,920 things. 240 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,920 Your communication skills increase in other things that you're writing or speaking about 241 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,920 as well. 242 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:34,800 And now kind of the side effects too are that you know your typing skills get faster or 243 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,500 maybe you're good at dictating your thoughts. 244 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,040 Your ability to do that gets faster. 245 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,360 So you become a sharper, more focused, more skilled communicator. 246 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,920 Okay, those are five reasons why grant submissions are not always about the money. 247 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,440 And so five reasons why you should write grants even if it doesn't get you money. 248 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,200 You get clarity of purpose. 249 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:56,200 That's number one. 250 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,200 Number two, it allows you to be a great research planner or project planner. 251 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,360 Number three, you're in touch with the literature. 252 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,480 You really get to build your expertise because you're the one pulling these things together. 253 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Number four, you become a really amazing critical thinker. 254 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,200 Number five, your communication skills are sharper and more focused. 255 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,000 All right, these are reasons to continually submit grants. 256 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,160 Don't let the grant writing scare you. 257 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,480 And if you need a coach to help pull you through, I would love to be your coach. 258 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,160 Reach out to me by direct message. 259 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,520 I'm at Facebook. 260 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,960 I'm on Facebook and I'm also on Instagram and on LinkedIn as well. 261 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,920 All right, please share this with someone else who's like despairing and saying, why 262 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,480 do I continue to write grants that don't get funded? 263 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,520 Tell them, ha, even if you don't get the money, you're getting so much out of it. 264 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,760 All right, share this episode with them, please. 265 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,160 It has been a pleasure talking with you today. 266 00:15:49,160 --> 00:16:01,160 I look forward to talking with you again the next time. 267 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:06,520 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic 268 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,880 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 269 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,320 have a mentor. 270 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,960 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 271 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,160 Someone else needs to hear it. 272 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,200 So take a minute right now and share it. 273 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,680 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 274 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:50,720 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.