The player is loading ...
Aug. 17, 2023
Why chasing research money could hurt you
You want funding for your research program so it makes sense to chase money. However, chasing money can ultimately hurt your research program. In today's episode, we discuss 6 things to consider about chasing research money as follows:
- Potential for Success
- Funder Dependency:
- Balancing Success and Fulfillment:
- Money's Role:
- Starting with Purpose:
- Attracting Opportunities:
Remember, just as crucial as securing funding is having a fulfilling research journey aligned with your values. Are you looking to negotiate your first, next, or current academic job? If yes, sign up for our upcoming masterclass at the following link: https://www.coagcoach.com/events-1
If you want to work with a coach to help you negotiate your academic career more effectively, sign up on our website:https://www.clinicianresearcherpodcast.com/
Transcript
1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
2
00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
3
00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
4
00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
5
00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
6
00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200
program.
7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
8
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
9
00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,060
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
12
00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:04,680
Welcome to today's episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.
13
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,560
Thank you for tuning in today.
14
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,920
I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure for me to be talking with
15
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:12,920
you today.
16
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,520
All right, I'm talking about why chasing research money could be hurting you.
17
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,000
Why chasing research money could be hurting you.
18
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,920
And before I start, I want to remind you that Academic Negotiation Academy is open to enrollment.
19
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,900
I would love to be your coach to show you how to negotiate your academic career.
20
00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:41,080
If you are interested, please sign up on our website for the waiting list at clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
21
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,640
I look forward to seeing you.
22
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,980
Okay, so today we're talking about why chasing research money could hurt you.
23
00:01:48,980 --> 00:01:49,980
And I hear you saying, what?
24
00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:51,360
What do you mean chasing money?
25
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,540
That couldn't hurt me.
26
00:01:52,540 --> 00:01:56,320
I would be so honored to have so much money to fund my research program.
27
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,760
And yes, that is correct.
28
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,820
Money is what helps our research programs move forward.
29
00:02:01,820 --> 00:02:03,080
It's what helps us hire.
30
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,240
It's what helps us do the work.
31
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,180
But why chasing the money could hurt you is something I'm going to talk to you about today.
32
00:02:10,180 --> 00:02:16,040
So when I first started in research, especially as a faculty member, one of the conversations
33
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,000
that would come up was that, well, this is not what NIH is funding right now.
34
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,200
This is what NIH is funding.
35
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,240
So this is what you should be doing.
36
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,560
And then I would say, okay, great.
37
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,840
So I need to go out and write a proposal that NIH will fund.
38
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,960
And then keep looking at other proposals that NIH has funded and work really hard to kind
39
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,800
of recreate the proposal and submit that.
40
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,320
And to be honest, I didn't do very well with many of these proposals that I submitted.
41
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,720
And it just was so frustrating because sometimes they would change direction.
42
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,680
For example, COVID happened.
43
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,600
And with COVID, all of a sudden, all the research monies were going to people doing COVID.
44
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,280
And then everybody changed direction and was doing COVID research.
45
00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,000
And then came more money going into health disparities type work.
46
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,800
And then all of a sudden, everyone was doing health disparities type work.
47
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,140
At least the conversations were around, well, how do we put a health disparities focus on
48
00:03:08,140 --> 00:03:10,720
our research so we can get funded?
49
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:16,400
And I think I realized really over time that although other people could succeed with that
50
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,800
strategy, that was not going to be my strategy.
51
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,920
And it really is the story for me of the tortoise and the hare.
52
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:31,160
So the hare is fast and can pivot every few minutes and move in a different direction.
53
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,640
And as the tortoise, you're just kind of slow and you're plodding along, but you're making
54
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,640
progress.
55
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,760
And at the end of the day, the tortoise will always win.
56
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,400
I mean, in the story, clearly the tortoise is the one winning.
57
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,320
You could reshape the story and stop the hare from sleeping so that the hare can win.
58
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,520
But at the end of the day, if you are making slow steady progress in one direction, you
59
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,840
greatly increase the chances that you're going to get there.
60
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,560
And so I want to talk to you about what to consider before you start chasing money.
61
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,840
At the end of the day, you're trying to fund your research program.
62
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,800
And to be honest, you're not really discriminatory.
63
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,160
You're like, look, whoever will give me money, I will take.
64
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,160
And so you're like, let's not be naive here.
65
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,760
I need money for my research program.
66
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,800
So I will take the money and I will chase whatever money is available.
67
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,440
But I do want to say please do what you need to do.
68
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,840
I'm not here to stop you.
69
00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,400
Please succeed in whatever way rings true to you.
70
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,160
But I do want to talk to you about what to consider before you start chasing money.
71
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,480
And I have six things today that I'm asking you to consider before you start chasing money.
72
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,000
And by chasing money, I mean as soon as a call for proposals comes out, you are trying
73
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,800
to see how can you shape your research to fit the call for proposals because, hey, that's
74
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,280
where the money is now.
75
00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:47,280
OK.
76
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,760
So I want to first start by saying that you should consider that chasing research money
77
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,360
is actually a strategy that can be wildly successful.
78
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,880
Oh, it can be so successful.
79
00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,840
Because if you can make a case for why you should get this new pot of money to support
80
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:07,280
this new research paradigm or this new direction, you're gold.
81
00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:09,640
You increase the chances that you get that pot of money.
82
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,600
And many of the times when there's like this change in direction and this new infusion
83
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,400
into this new research area, that's a lot of money going in.
84
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,480
There was so much money for COVID at the beginning of the pandemic.
85
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,760
And then when there was a focus on health disparities, so much money started pouring
86
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,280
in.
87
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,600
And the reality is that there's enough money in there.
88
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,880
If you can kind of twist and turn and make it work, you can be wildly successful.
89
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:40,920
And as I've talked about in a prior episode, wild success is possible without true joy.
90
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,400
And wild success can be a pitfall.
91
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,520
So you don't even care about COVID research.
92
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,820
But all of a sudden, because there's money there, you just like repurpose everything
93
00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:52,920
you're doing, change everybody's direction, put them on this COVID project.
94
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,600
And then when the money runs out for the COVID, you are still left wildly successful in your
95
00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,600
COVID projects.
96
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,920
And then what do you do?
97
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,840
COVID is not what you really wanted to do.
98
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:04,840
But now you've succeeded in it.
99
00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:08,040
And now you actually kind of are stuck in your success.
100
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,980
You're needing to continue to move these projects forward.
101
00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:14,520
And it's fine if you're saying it affects us diseases and COVID is something that you've
102
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,500
been so interested in all this time.
103
00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:21,880
Not so hot if you know you couldn't really care less about COVID research, except that
104
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,440
there was money there and you went for it.
105
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,960
And so consider that you could become wildly successful.
106
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,140
And is this the thing in which you want to become successful?
107
00:06:32,140 --> 00:06:36,200
And is this the thing in which you want to continue to propagate success?
108
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,080
And so if the answer is yes, yes, yes, good for you.
109
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,080
Please go chasing that pot of money.
110
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:49,760
But if you're just pivoting, and that's not really your interest, don't do it.
111
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,880
Stay true to yourself.
112
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,520
But consider that if you chase money, you can win.
113
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:55,520
You can win big.
114
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,320
But is that the way in which you want to win big?
115
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,680
And are you going to want to continue that path over time?
116
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:02,680
Something to consider.
117
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,680
Okay.
118
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:12,120
Number two is that chasing money as your primary strategy leaves you at the mercy of the funders.
119
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,200
And yes, funders have the money.
120
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,040
And so they're very big, very powerful, very amazing and important group of people.
121
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,280
The funders have the money.
122
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,600
But when you start chasing research money, you are at the mercy of the funders and at
123
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:27,760
their wimps.
124
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,960
Funders kind of change their minds.
125
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,160
Today this is an important priority for them and they may change direction a couple of
126
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,360
years from now and say, no, this is no longer our priority.
127
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,880
And then what do you do when your major funder changes priorities?
128
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,280
Then you kind of have to change priorities too, because now you're like, well, I started
129
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,040
this line of work because you were supporting me.
130
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480
And now you're telling me there's no more money for this?
131
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,040
What am I going to do?
132
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480
And so in a way, you're at the mercy of the funders to determine what your research program
133
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,480
should be.
134
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,440
But ultimately, you are the one in charge of your research.
135
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,560
You're the one leading your research program and nobody gets to lead your program except
136
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,560
you.
137
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,400
And even though the funders have the money, they're not in charge of setting the direction
138
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,860
for your research program.
139
00:08:14,860 --> 00:08:16,080
You are.
140
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,800
And so when you kind of chase research money and chase funders, sometimes you lose your
141
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,160
way because it's like, wait, what is the essence of your program?
142
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,440
What is the problem you've come to solve?
143
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,120
And if every few years you make a pivot and you're shifting towards some other direction
144
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,320
because maybe there's more money in it, it's like, so who's driving your research program?
145
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,560
Who's the real leader here?
146
00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:43,480
And I think what it can do is take you away from your primary responsibility as the leader
147
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:44,920
of your program.
148
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,720
So chasing research money can leave you at the mercy of the funders.
149
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:55,760
And sometimes it can call into question who's really leading your program.
150
00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:02,200
Number three is that chasing research money is a sad way to lead your research career.
151
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,980
Now, if you've listened to any of my past episodes, you know that I'm always big on
152
00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:08,760
starting with why.
153
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,340
Why are you doing this?
154
00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:12,840
What is the point of your research program?
155
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:13,960
Where are you going with it?
156
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,960
Who's going to benefit from it?
157
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,480
When you look back on your career 40 years from now, what are you going to say about
158
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,480
it?
159
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,440
What will be the things that bring you joy?
160
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,420
And if all you can say when you look back is that I got a boatload of money, I was very
161
00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:37,040
wildly successful, and you cannot be clear about the body of work that you succeeded
162
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,360
in, or how it resonated with you, how it helped you fulfill purpose.
163
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,720
And I think I would argue that that will be so empty.
164
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:51,040
And so chasing research money is kind of a sad way to lead your research career because
165
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:59,000
it means kind of money as your leader rather than it serving you in support of your purpose.
166
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,440
And it's great to be resourced.
167
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,200
It's great to have so much funding.
168
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,200
It's so awesome.
169
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,560
What primary purpose does it serve?
170
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,840
And so as you are working towards resourcing your research program, make sure that you
171
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:21,840
are actually stepping up and leading and ensuring that you really are moving forward your purpose
172
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,800
in a way that you can be proud of 30, 40, 50 years from now.
173
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,760
Okay, so don't chase research money.
174
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,640
It's a sad way to lead your research career.
175
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:41,180
Number four is that research money is a great servant, but it's a horrible master.
176
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:46,760
Because the moment you make an argument for a research proposal and it's funded, you're
177
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,760
kind of committed to doing the work.
178
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,600
And there are many schools of thought as to whether the work was already done before you
179
00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,000
submitted the research proposal, but in reality, when you get funded, you're obligated to the
180
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,800
work that you said you're going to do.
181
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,040
And sometimes there's a school of thought that you're like, no, once you get the money,
182
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,920
you can do what you want with it and you can't.
183
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,360
You really are obligated to do the work.
184
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,800
And yes, things change and sometimes a certain direction that you thought you would go in
185
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,040
changes and you're pivoting your research.
186
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,480
And as long as you're open and honest about that, it's okay.
187
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:31,120
But it is important to recognize that the research money that you get really is to fund
188
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,880
your program, is to help you get to a destination.
189
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:41,000
And so allowing yourself to kind of set the direction for the research money is helpful
190
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,240
rather than chasing the research money around.
191
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,640
Because money is a great servant and it's not a great master.
192
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:53,080
So it helps you serve purpose and helps you go and do amazing things and have amazing
193
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,440
impact.
194
00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:01,120
But it's not a great master because what happens when we are prioritizing research money is
195
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,400
that we start to go all out to make it work.
196
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:12,600
And we sometimes start to bend the rules and start to do things that might not be ethically
197
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,440
acceptable just in the service of the money.
198
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,880
It's like, no, getting this money is so important.
199
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,920
And then all of a sudden you start to create an environment of pressure around yourself.
200
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,680
And even without speaking or without even directly communicating that to people on your
201
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:33,840
team, when they see that you are so big on the money and they start to focus just on
202
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,240
the money and then they leave their ethics behind as they're kind of trying to satisfy
203
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,160
this desire that you've expressed, whether explicitly or implicitly.
204
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,000
And then all of a sudden you can see a lot of pressure in your program and people start
205
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,920
to kind of bend the truth to their whim.
206
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:56,000
And that's where some kind of missteps can happen and some bad things can come out of
207
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000
that.
208
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,000
And so it's important just to go back to the basics.
209
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,400
Like, why are we here?
210
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,360
Why does this money serve the program?
211
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,280
We don't have to get money at all costs.
212
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,720
We don't have to bend the truth to get money.
213
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,520
And just making sure that you're really building a culture of integrity and building a culture
214
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:17,320
of clarity and purpose and mission.
215
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,320
You want to do that.
216
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,640
And you don't want to ever create an environment in which it's like, well, just get the money
217
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,660
at all costs and let's figure out the rest later.
218
00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:29,240
Because it's not going to be a culture that's sustainable.
219
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,800
It's not going to be a culture that you enjoy.
220
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,560
And the people around you are not going to enjoy that culture either.
221
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,440
So don't let chasing money be something you do because really you start to serve the money
222
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,160
itself instead of serving the purpose that gives the money work to do.
223
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:51,680
And you create a culture that can be toxic to good work being done and can come back
224
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,560
and hurt you years, years down the road.
225
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,200
All right.
226
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,520
Number five, instead of chasing money, start with why.
227
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,400
Start with why is something that's kind of like a theme of every podcast episode.
228
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,860
You know, it is important to have money to fund your research program.
229
00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:12,360
Even if you don't get funded, your research program may not continue.
230
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,000
It is a reality and it's a reality that really hits home for many people.
231
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,520
But it is important to recognize why do you do what you do and why is it important?
232
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,280
Only remember that you're a clinician.
233
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,360
You're not answering research questions just to answer research questions.
234
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,320
You're asking research questions because you see a need in the patient population that
235
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,320
you serve.
236
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,160
You see the need.
237
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,720
And your research program is a response to that need.
238
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,680
And it is an important question.
239
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,200
And sometimes what you're doing is just over time, you're refining your skill at making
240
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,760
the need more obvious, making the need more clear to the funders around you.
241
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,180
And so the basis for your research program is solid.
242
00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:01,040
Unless you're just like, you know, oh, I just started this project.
243
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,120
Somebody gave it to me and here I am.
244
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,400
We are ones later, unless that's you.
245
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,240
And if that's you, we should talk because you don't want to get to the end of your
246
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,280
career and just feel empty and just feel like, yeah, I was wildly successful, but that didn't
247
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
really feel good.
248
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:22,040
Or, well, I was wildly successful and now my 18 year old doesn't talk to me.
249
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:27,960
You know, you're building a life at the same time as you're building a research program.
250
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,880
And it's got to be a meaningful life and your work has got to be meaningful.
251
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,400
You've got to enjoy the journey.
252
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,360
Can I just say that again?
253
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,360
This whole process is about enjoying the journey.
254
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,360
No, it's not about prestige.
255
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,520
It's not about honor.
256
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,440
It's not about glory.
257
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,360
It's about enjoying the journey.
258
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:53,040
And when you do work that's consistent with your values, that's aligned with who you are,
259
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,720
and every time it yields a reward, it nourishes you so deeply.
260
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,020
And it's so good.
261
00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:07,760
Every time you do work and you can look back on your work and say, that is a fine contribution.
262
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,120
There's no way to put monetary value on that.
263
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,620
It's so good.
264
00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:14,440
And I want that for you.
265
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,620
I want that for you.
266
00:16:15,620 --> 00:16:21,640
I want you, instead of just chasing the money, start with why, the why of your research program.
267
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:27,440
And I want to argue that when the why of your research program is so good and so deep, I
268
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,520
want to believe that the universe conspires to help you succeed.
269
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,200
And even when the universe does not conspire to help you succeed, you conspire to help
270
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,120
yourself succeed.
271
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640
Because the reason for your why is so clear to you that you're like, even if you're not
272
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,560
going to pay me, this work is going to move forward.
273
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,940
And somehow you start to attract people who have the same sentiment as you, and you really
274
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:50,880
start to move the work forward.
275
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:56,440
So I'm going to ask you to consider starting with why instead of just chasing money.
276
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,440
Okay?
277
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:03,400
And then number six is to use your why to create opportunities for money to come to
278
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,400
you.
279
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,600
When you're so sure, when you're so clear on why you're doing what you're doing and
280
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,960
the importance of it, then you can really start to make a case that other people can
281
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,240
start to see the why alongside you.
282
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,360
And that kind of is the whole big thing about grantsmanship.
283
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:23,040
You get to a place where you can actually communicate clearly what's in your head so
284
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,640
that at the time the reviewer reads it where you're not there, they clearly understand
285
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,400
where you're going, what you want to do, why it's significant, because you explain it to
286
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,040
them so well.
287
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:37,920
And so the reality is, if you would be so clear about why you're doing what you're doing,
288
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:45,360
why it's so important, then you can actually start to work hard to use that why to create
289
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,720
opportunities for funding to come to your program.
290
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,520
And so then you're not really letting the money lead you, you're letting your program
291
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,360
lead and you're using your program to create opportunities for funding.
292
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:06,040
I remember Judah Folkman gave a talk at a meeting that I was at a couple of years ago,
293
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:11,120
and I think Judah Folkman died a few years ago, but he talked about how when he was doing
294
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,840
work on angiogenesis, nobody was doing that work.
295
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,480
Nobody was funding that work.
296
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,840
And over the course of time, all of a sudden, change in direction, there was so much more
297
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:29,120
money going into that field, all of a sudden everybody came in and was doing work in angiogenesis.
298
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,680
Angiogenesis is just such a big thing by itself.
299
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:37,160
But someone was the lone voice in the wilderness saying, hey, angiogenesis is a big deal.
300
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,560
And for the longest time, they were on their own doing that work.
301
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,240
But over time, it really paid off.
302
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,100
And his story is not the only story of that.
303
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:51,880
It's like when you know and you believe in the truth and the value of what you're doing,
304
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:58,920
abandoning it doesn't get you closer to realizing your dream, but continuing to stay focused
305
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,920
and putting in the time and the effort, creating opportunities where opportunities don't exist,
306
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,040
allow you to do the impossible.
307
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,600
And I invite you to that.
308
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:17,280
I invite you to think about why your program is so important, that even if you look around
309
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,640
and there doesn't seem to be anybody funding it, think about why does it make sense to
310
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:22,800
stay with it?
311
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Yes, you do want to be creative in funding the program, but you don't want to change
312
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,000
direction just so that you can get funded.
313
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,480
You want to make sure that you stay focused and you bend opportunities to your will, not
314
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,880
that you're bending to the will of opportunities.
315
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:45,800
So I want to invite you, if you are someone who knows someone else who would benefit from
316
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680
kind of the information we've talked about and thinking about why you should lead your
317
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:55,320
research program and not let the pursuit of money lead for you, please share this episode
318
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,360
with someone else.
319
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:01,040
Help somebody else discover it or leave us a review that somebody else can discover and
320
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,600
learn so much.
321
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,160
Imagine how amazing it would be if we just were very clear about the whys of our research
322
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:15,000
program and we stuck through hard times to get to the other side of research success
323
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,080
in a place that we actually want to be successful.
324
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280
I think that would be so awesome and I invite you to that space.
325
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,040
All right, I want to thank you for listening to us today.
326
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:36,840
It has been a pleasure talking with you today and I look forward to the next time.
327
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,200
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic
328
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:47,640
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
329
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,000
have a mentor.
330
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,120
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
331
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,840
Someone else needs to hear it.
332
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,900
So take a minute right now and share it.
333
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:06,360
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
334
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:12,280
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
2
00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
3
00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
4
00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
5
00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
6
00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200
program.
7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
8
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
9
00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,060
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
12
00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:04,680
Welcome to today's episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.
13
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,560
Thank you for tuning in today.
14
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,920
I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure for me to be talking with
15
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:12,920
you today.
16
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,520
All right, I'm talking about why chasing research money could be hurting you.
17
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,000
Why chasing research money could be hurting you.
18
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,920
And before I start, I want to remind you that Academic Negotiation Academy is open to enrollment.
19
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,900
I would love to be your coach to show you how to negotiate your academic career.
20
00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:41,080
If you are interested, please sign up on our website for the waiting list at clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
21
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,640
I look forward to seeing you.
22
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,980
Okay, so today we're talking about why chasing research money could hurt you.
23
00:01:48,980 --> 00:01:49,980
And I hear you saying, what?
24
00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:51,360
What do you mean chasing money?
25
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,540
That couldn't hurt me.
26
00:01:52,540 --> 00:01:56,320
I would be so honored to have so much money to fund my research program.
27
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,760
And yes, that is correct.
28
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,820
Money is what helps our research programs move forward.
29
00:02:01,820 --> 00:02:03,080
It's what helps us hire.
30
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,240
It's what helps us do the work.
31
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,180
But why chasing the money could hurt you is something I'm going to talk to you about today.
32
00:02:10,180 --> 00:02:16,040
So when I first started in research, especially as a faculty member, one of the conversations
33
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,000
that would come up was that, well, this is not what NIH is funding right now.
34
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,200
This is what NIH is funding.
35
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,240
So this is what you should be doing.
36
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,560
And then I would say, okay, great.
37
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,840
So I need to go out and write a proposal that NIH will fund.
38
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,960
And then keep looking at other proposals that NIH has funded and work really hard to kind
39
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,800
of recreate the proposal and submit that.
40
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,320
And to be honest, I didn't do very well with many of these proposals that I submitted.
41
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,720
And it just was so frustrating because sometimes they would change direction.
42
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,680
For example, COVID happened.
43
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,600
And with COVID, all of a sudden, all the research monies were going to people doing COVID.
44
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,280
And then everybody changed direction and was doing COVID research.
45
00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,000
And then came more money going into health disparities type work.
46
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,800
And then all of a sudden, everyone was doing health disparities type work.
47
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,140
At least the conversations were around, well, how do we put a health disparities focus on
48
00:03:08,140 --> 00:03:10,720
our research so we can get funded?
49
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:16,400
And I think I realized really over time that although other people could succeed with that
50
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,800
strategy, that was not going to be my strategy.
51
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,920
And it really is the story for me of the tortoise and the hare.
52
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:31,160
So the hare is fast and can pivot every few minutes and move in a different direction.
53
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,640
And as the tortoise, you're just kind of slow and you're plodding along, but you're making
54
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,640
progress.
55
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,760
And at the end of the day, the tortoise will always win.
56
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,400
I mean, in the story, clearly the tortoise is the one winning.
57
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,320
You could reshape the story and stop the hare from sleeping so that the hare can win.
58
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,520
But at the end of the day, if you are making slow steady progress in one direction, you
59
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,840
greatly increase the chances that you're going to get there.
60
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,560
And so I want to talk to you about what to consider before you start chasing money.
61
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,840
At the end of the day, you're trying to fund your research program.
62
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,800
And to be honest, you're not really discriminatory.
63
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,160
You're like, look, whoever will give me money, I will take.
64
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,160
And so you're like, let's not be naive here.
65
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,760
I need money for my research program.
66
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,800
So I will take the money and I will chase whatever money is available.
67
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,440
But I do want to say please do what you need to do.
68
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,840
I'm not here to stop you.
69
00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,400
Please succeed in whatever way rings true to you.
70
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,160
But I do want to talk to you about what to consider before you start chasing money.
71
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,480
And I have six things today that I'm asking you to consider before you start chasing money.
72
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,000
And by chasing money, I mean as soon as a call for proposals comes out, you are trying
73
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,800
to see how can you shape your research to fit the call for proposals because, hey, that's
74
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,280
where the money is now.
75
00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:47,280
OK.
76
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,760
So I want to first start by saying that you should consider that chasing research money
77
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,360
is actually a strategy that can be wildly successful.
78
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,880
Oh, it can be so successful.
79
00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,840
Because if you can make a case for why you should get this new pot of money to support
80
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:07,280
this new research paradigm or this new direction, you're gold.
81
00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:09,640
You increase the chances that you get that pot of money.
82
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,600
And many of the times when there's like this change in direction and this new infusion
83
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,400
into this new research area, that's a lot of money going in.
84
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,480
There was so much money for COVID at the beginning of the pandemic.
85
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,760
And then when there was a focus on health disparities, so much money started pouring
86
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,280
in.
87
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,600
And the reality is that there's enough money in there.
88
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,880
If you can kind of twist and turn and make it work, you can be wildly successful.
89
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:40,920
And as I've talked about in a prior episode, wild success is possible without true joy.
90
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,400
And wild success can be a pitfall.
91
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,520
So you don't even care about COVID research.
92
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,820
But all of a sudden, because there's money there, you just like repurpose everything
93
00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:52,920
you're doing, change everybody's direction, put them on this COVID project.
94
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,600
And then when the money runs out for the COVID, you are still left wildly successful in your
95
00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,600
COVID projects.
96
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,920
And then what do you do?
97
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,840
COVID is not what you really wanted to do.
98
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:04,840
But now you've succeeded in it.
99
00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:08,040
And now you actually kind of are stuck in your success.
100
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,980
You're needing to continue to move these projects forward.
101
00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:14,520
And it's fine if you're saying it affects us diseases and COVID is something that you've
102
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,500
been so interested in all this time.
103
00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:21,880
Not so hot if you know you couldn't really care less about COVID research, except that
104
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,440
there was money there and you went for it.
105
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,960
And so consider that you could become wildly successful.
106
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,140
And is this the thing in which you want to become successful?
107
00:06:32,140 --> 00:06:36,200
And is this the thing in which you want to continue to propagate success?
108
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,080
And so if the answer is yes, yes, yes, good for you.
109
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,080
Please go chasing that pot of money.
110
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:49,760
But if you're just pivoting, and that's not really your interest, don't do it.
111
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,880
Stay true to yourself.
112
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,520
But consider that if you chase money, you can win.
113
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:55,520
You can win big.
114
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,320
But is that the way in which you want to win big?
115
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,680
And are you going to want to continue that path over time?
116
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:02,680
Something to consider.
117
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,680
Okay.
118
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:12,120
Number two is that chasing money as your primary strategy leaves you at the mercy of the funders.
119
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,200
And yes, funders have the money.
120
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,040
And so they're very big, very powerful, very amazing and important group of people.
121
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,280
The funders have the money.
122
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,600
But when you start chasing research money, you are at the mercy of the funders and at
123
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:27,760
their wimps.
124
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,960
Funders kind of change their minds.
125
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,160
Today this is an important priority for them and they may change direction a couple of
126
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,360
years from now and say, no, this is no longer our priority.
127
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,880
And then what do you do when your major funder changes priorities?
128
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,280
Then you kind of have to change priorities too, because now you're like, well, I started
129
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,040
this line of work because you were supporting me.
130
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480
And now you're telling me there's no more money for this?
131
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,040
What am I going to do?
132
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480
And so in a way, you're at the mercy of the funders to determine what your research program
133
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,480
should be.
134
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,440
But ultimately, you are the one in charge of your research.
135
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,560
You're the one leading your research program and nobody gets to lead your program except
136
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,560
you.
137
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,400
And even though the funders have the money, they're not in charge of setting the direction
138
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,860
for your research program.
139
00:08:14,860 --> 00:08:16,080
You are.
140
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,800
And so when you kind of chase research money and chase funders, sometimes you lose your
141
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,160
way because it's like, wait, what is the essence of your program?
142
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,440
What is the problem you've come to solve?
143
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,120
And if every few years you make a pivot and you're shifting towards some other direction
144
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,320
because maybe there's more money in it, it's like, so who's driving your research program?
145
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,560
Who's the real leader here?
146
00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:43,480
And I think what it can do is take you away from your primary responsibility as the leader
147
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:44,920
of your program.
148
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,720
So chasing research money can leave you at the mercy of the funders.
149
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:55,760
And sometimes it can call into question who's really leading your program.
150
00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:02,200
Number three is that chasing research money is a sad way to lead your research career.
151
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,980
Now, if you've listened to any of my past episodes, you know that I'm always big on
152
00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:08,760
starting with why.
153
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,340
Why are you doing this?
154
00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:12,840
What is the point of your research program?
155
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:13,960
Where are you going with it?
156
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,960
Who's going to benefit from it?
157
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,480
When you look back on your career 40 years from now, what are you going to say about
158
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,480
it?
159
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,440
What will be the things that bring you joy?
160
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,420
And if all you can say when you look back is that I got a boatload of money, I was very
161
00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:37,040
wildly successful, and you cannot be clear about the body of work that you succeeded
162
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,360
in, or how it resonated with you, how it helped you fulfill purpose.
163
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,720
And I think I would argue that that will be so empty.
164
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:51,040
And so chasing research money is kind of a sad way to lead your research career because
165
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:59,000
it means kind of money as your leader rather than it serving you in support of your purpose.
166
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,440
And it's great to be resourced.
167
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,200
It's great to have so much funding.
168
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,200
It's so awesome.
169
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,560
What primary purpose does it serve?
170
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,840
And so as you are working towards resourcing your research program, make sure that you
171
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:21,840
are actually stepping up and leading and ensuring that you really are moving forward your purpose
172
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,800
in a way that you can be proud of 30, 40, 50 years from now.
173
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,760
Okay, so don't chase research money.
174
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,640
It's a sad way to lead your research career.
175
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:41,180
Number four is that research money is a great servant, but it's a horrible master.
176
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:46,760
Because the moment you make an argument for a research proposal and it's funded, you're
177
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,760
kind of committed to doing the work.
178
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,600
And there are many schools of thought as to whether the work was already done before you
179
00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,000
submitted the research proposal, but in reality, when you get funded, you're obligated to the
180
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,800
work that you said you're going to do.
181
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,040
And sometimes there's a school of thought that you're like, no, once you get the money,
182
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,920
you can do what you want with it and you can't.
183
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,360
You really are obligated to do the work.
184
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,800
And yes, things change and sometimes a certain direction that you thought you would go in
185
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,040
changes and you're pivoting your research.
186
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,480
And as long as you're open and honest about that, it's okay.
187
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:31,120
But it is important to recognize that the research money that you get really is to fund
188
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,880
your program, is to help you get to a destination.
189
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:41,000
And so allowing yourself to kind of set the direction for the research money is helpful
190
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,240
rather than chasing the research money around.
191
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,640
Because money is a great servant and it's not a great master.
192
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:53,080
So it helps you serve purpose and helps you go and do amazing things and have amazing
193
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,440
impact.
194
00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:01,120
But it's not a great master because what happens when we are prioritizing research money is
195
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,400
that we start to go all out to make it work.
196
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:12,600
And we sometimes start to bend the rules and start to do things that might not be ethically
197
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,440
acceptable just in the service of the money.
198
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,880
It's like, no, getting this money is so important.
199
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,920
And then all of a sudden you start to create an environment of pressure around yourself.
200
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,680
And even without speaking or without even directly communicating that to people on your
201
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:33,840
team, when they see that you are so big on the money and they start to focus just on
202
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,240
the money and then they leave their ethics behind as they're kind of trying to satisfy
203
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,160
this desire that you've expressed, whether explicitly or implicitly.
204
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,000
And then all of a sudden you can see a lot of pressure in your program and people start
205
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,920
to kind of bend the truth to their whim.
206
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:56,000
And that's where some kind of missteps can happen and some bad things can come out of
207
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000
that.
208
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,000
And so it's important just to go back to the basics.
209
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,400
Like, why are we here?
210
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,360
Why does this money serve the program?
211
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,280
We don't have to get money at all costs.
212
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,720
We don't have to bend the truth to get money.
213
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,520
And just making sure that you're really building a culture of integrity and building a culture
214
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:17,320
of clarity and purpose and mission.
215
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,320
You want to do that.
216
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,640
And you don't want to ever create an environment in which it's like, well, just get the money
217
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,660
at all costs and let's figure out the rest later.
218
00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:29,240
Because it's not going to be a culture that's sustainable.
219
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,800
It's not going to be a culture that you enjoy.
220
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,560
And the people around you are not going to enjoy that culture either.
221
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,440
So don't let chasing money be something you do because really you start to serve the money
222
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,160
itself instead of serving the purpose that gives the money work to do.
223
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:51,680
And you create a culture that can be toxic to good work being done and can come back
224
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,560
and hurt you years, years down the road.
225
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,200
All right.
226
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,520
Number five, instead of chasing money, start with why.
227
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,400
Start with why is something that's kind of like a theme of every podcast episode.
228
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,860
You know, it is important to have money to fund your research program.
229
00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:12,360
Even if you don't get funded, your research program may not continue.
230
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,000
It is a reality and it's a reality that really hits home for many people.
231
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,520
But it is important to recognize why do you do what you do and why is it important?
232
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,280
Only remember that you're a clinician.
233
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,360
You're not answering research questions just to answer research questions.
234
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,320
You're asking research questions because you see a need in the patient population that
235
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,320
you serve.
236
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,160
You see the need.
237
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,720
And your research program is a response to that need.
238
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,680
And it is an important question.
239
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,200
And sometimes what you're doing is just over time, you're refining your skill at making
240
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,760
the need more obvious, making the need more clear to the funders around you.
241
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,180
And so the basis for your research program is solid.
242
00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:01,040
Unless you're just like, you know, oh, I just started this project.
243
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,120
Somebody gave it to me and here I am.
244
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,400
We are ones later, unless that's you.
245
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,240
And if that's you, we should talk because you don't want to get to the end of your
246
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,280
career and just feel empty and just feel like, yeah, I was wildly successful, but that didn't
247
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
really feel good.
248
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:22,040
Or, well, I was wildly successful and now my 18 year old doesn't talk to me.
249
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:27,960
You know, you're building a life at the same time as you're building a research program.
250
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,880
And it's got to be a meaningful life and your work has got to be meaningful.
251
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,400
You've got to enjoy the journey.
252
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,360
Can I just say that again?
253
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,360
This whole process is about enjoying the journey.
254
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,360
No, it's not about prestige.
255
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,520
It's not about honor.
256
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,440
It's not about glory.
257
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,360
It's about enjoying the journey.
258
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:53,040
And when you do work that's consistent with your values, that's aligned with who you are,
259
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,720
and every time it yields a reward, it nourishes you so deeply.
260
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,020
And it's so good.
261
00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:07,760
Every time you do work and you can look back on your work and say, that is a fine contribution.
262
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,120
There's no way to put monetary value on that.
263
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,620
It's so good.
264
00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:14,440
And I want that for you.
265
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,620
I want that for you.
266
00:16:15,620 --> 00:16:21,640
I want you, instead of just chasing the money, start with why, the why of your research program.
267
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:27,440
And I want to argue that when the why of your research program is so good and so deep, I
268
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,520
want to believe that the universe conspires to help you succeed.
269
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,200
And even when the universe does not conspire to help you succeed, you conspire to help
270
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,120
yourself succeed.
271
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640
Because the reason for your why is so clear to you that you're like, even if you're not
272
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,560
going to pay me, this work is going to move forward.
273
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,940
And somehow you start to attract people who have the same sentiment as you, and you really
274
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:50,880
start to move the work forward.
275
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:56,440
So I'm going to ask you to consider starting with why instead of just chasing money.
276
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,440
Okay?
277
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:03,400
And then number six is to use your why to create opportunities for money to come to
278
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,400
you.
279
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,600
When you're so sure, when you're so clear on why you're doing what you're doing and
280
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,960
the importance of it, then you can really start to make a case that other people can
281
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,240
start to see the why alongside you.
282
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,360
And that kind of is the whole big thing about grantsmanship.
283
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:23,040
You get to a place where you can actually communicate clearly what's in your head so
284
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,640
that at the time the reviewer reads it where you're not there, they clearly understand
285
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,400
where you're going, what you want to do, why it's significant, because you explain it to
286
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,040
them so well.
287
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:37,920
And so the reality is, if you would be so clear about why you're doing what you're doing,
288
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:45,360
why it's so important, then you can actually start to work hard to use that why to create
289
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,720
opportunities for funding to come to your program.
290
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,520
And so then you're not really letting the money lead you, you're letting your program
291
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,360
lead and you're using your program to create opportunities for funding.
292
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:06,040
I remember Judah Folkman gave a talk at a meeting that I was at a couple of years ago,
293
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:11,120
and I think Judah Folkman died a few years ago, but he talked about how when he was doing
294
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,840
work on angiogenesis, nobody was doing that work.
295
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,480
Nobody was funding that work.
296
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,840
And over the course of time, all of a sudden, change in direction, there was so much more
297
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:29,120
money going into that field, all of a sudden everybody came in and was doing work in angiogenesis.
298
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,680
Angiogenesis is just such a big thing by itself.
299
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:37,160
But someone was the lone voice in the wilderness saying, hey, angiogenesis is a big deal.
300
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,560
And for the longest time, they were on their own doing that work.
301
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,240
But over time, it really paid off.
302
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,100
And his story is not the only story of that.
303
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:51,880
It's like when you know and you believe in the truth and the value of what you're doing,
304
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:58,920
abandoning it doesn't get you closer to realizing your dream, but continuing to stay focused
305
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,920
and putting in the time and the effort, creating opportunities where opportunities don't exist,
306
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,040
allow you to do the impossible.
307
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,600
And I invite you to that.
308
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:17,280
I invite you to think about why your program is so important, that even if you look around
309
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,640
and there doesn't seem to be anybody funding it, think about why does it make sense to
310
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:22,800
stay with it?
311
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Yes, you do want to be creative in funding the program, but you don't want to change
312
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,000
direction just so that you can get funded.
313
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,480
You want to make sure that you stay focused and you bend opportunities to your will, not
314
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,880
that you're bending to the will of opportunities.
315
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:45,800
So I want to invite you, if you are someone who knows someone else who would benefit from
316
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680
kind of the information we've talked about and thinking about why you should lead your
317
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:55,320
research program and not let the pursuit of money lead for you, please share this episode
318
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,360
with someone else.
319
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:01,040
Help somebody else discover it or leave us a review that somebody else can discover and
320
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,600
learn so much.
321
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,160
Imagine how amazing it would be if we just were very clear about the whys of our research
322
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:15,000
program and we stuck through hard times to get to the other side of research success
323
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,080
in a place that we actually want to be successful.
324
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280
I think that would be so awesome and I invite you to that space.
325
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,040
All right, I want to thank you for listening to us today.
326
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:36,840
It has been a pleasure talking with you today and I look forward to the next time.
327
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,200
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic
328
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:47,640
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
329
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,000
have a mentor.
330
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,120
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
331
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,840
Someone else needs to hear it.
332
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,900
So take a minute right now and share it.
333
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:06,360
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
334
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:12,280
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.
Sign up for our weekly newsletter
Listen On
New to Clinician Researcher?
Feb. 5, 2024
Keys to Your Success - The Importance of Focus
In this episode, we explore the pivotal role of focus. In the journey to becoming a clinician scientist, we discuss the complexities of balancing clinical responsibilities, research, and administrative duties. Key Points Disc...
Jan. 5, 2024
Welcome to 2024!
In this episode, the Clinician Researcher Podcast sets off Season 2 with a focus on supporting clinicians transitioning to researchers while emphasizing authenticity and individuality. Key Points Discussed: Transitioning to a...
Sept. 4, 2023
How to negotiate your salary
Salary negotiations in academic medicine can be challenging. It is especially challenging because no one teaches you how to negotiate well. In this episode, we break down the salary negotiation process. This process highlight...
Aug. 7, 2023
How to negotiate for protected time
In this episode, we explore the art of negotiating protected time. Negotiate time to advance your research and career by doing the following things: Get clarity on what protected time will do for you. Develop a strategic plan...
Aug. 3, 2023
Why do I need protected time?
Podcast Show Notes - Clinician Researcher, Episode 3: Why do I need protected time? Welcome to another enlightening episode of the "Clinician Researcher" podcast. In this episode, we delve into the concept of "Protected Time"...
Aug. 2, 2023
Can I succeed with or without a mentor?
Podcast Show Notes - Clinician Researcher, Episode 2: Can I Succeed with or without a Mentor? Did you know that mentorship plays a crucial role in shaping the success of clinicians and researchers? According to a systematic r...
Aug. 1, 2023
Why Clinicians Should Lead Research
Welcome to the inaugural episode of the "Clinician Researcher" podcast, where we empower clinicians to become successful research leaders. In this inaugural episode, we explore why clinicians should lead research programs. We...