Why you may struggle to find a research mentor

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you

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today.

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Thank you so much for tuning in.

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Today, I'm talking to you about why you may be struggling to find a research mentor.

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Again, that title is why you may be struggling to find a research mentor.

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And I want to say that, honestly, you may be struggling to find a research mentor at

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any point in your career, but usually, when people are struggling to find a research mentor,

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they're early on in their career.

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So they may be still residents or fellows, and they may be early career faculty, but

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it's usually kind of early on in your career when you're really looking for a research

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mentor.

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And so I want to say that that's the group I'm speaking to today, while also acknowledging

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that there are people that may not consider themselves early career who are also looking

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for research mentors.

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And I'm going to say, I think that some of these things that I'm going to talk about

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today are applicable to you, but don't fret if they are not.

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If for whatever reason you find a residence and you don't consider yourself early career

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faculty, please let me know.

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Reach me on LinkedIn.

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Or if you don't find residence and you're mid-career faculty, or you don't consider

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yourself early career faculty, shoot me a message as well.

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Because I want to understand how this may be helpful to anybody who's beyond the group

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that I think I'm talking to today.

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Okay.

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Thank you for indulging me.

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So I think one of the reasons this is an important topic, apart from the fact that it was my

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personal experience, is that many people come and they complain about not being able to

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find a research mentor.

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So this is a ubiquitous problem.

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And it's happened to enough people such that I feel like it's important for me to help

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people understand what some of the issues may be.

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Now, I want to say that this is not your problem in the sense that it's not your fault.

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It's a systemic issue.

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And understanding what the systems are that can sometimes prevent you from finding a mentor

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are helpful because it could allow you to become innovative about the strategies you

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identify to help you overcome what is a hurdle.

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So for me, when I started out, actually, when I was trying to do research as an undergrad,

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that wasn't so hard.

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There were actually a preponderance of opportunities available where I could go and ask a mentor

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if I could work with them in their research program.

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And there was the expectation that I would just be there for the summer.

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I would be there for the semester.

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And that wasn't too difficult.

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And that was helpful because in applying to medical school, research is one of those things

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that's recommended.

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And so not so much a problem when I was in my undergrad, not a problem really when I

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was in medical school too.

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So in medical school, we had an opportunity to do a year long period of research, actually

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about 10 months.

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And there was a wealth of faculty members that we could go to.

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And depending on our interests, we would interview different people and people were always welcoming

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us with open arms.

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At least it seemed so that way.

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But then I got into my faculty position.

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Actually, I'll go back and say even in residency, there seemed to be a little bit more openness

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to allowing residents to work in the program and people actively seeking residents to work

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in their research program.

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But then when I got to become a fellow and a faculty member, it just seemed to be getting

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harder and harder and harder.

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And so I definitely would say that I struggled to find a research mentor.

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And now that I'm a research mentor myself, I have a sense of why that struggle exists

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and why it probably is not going to go away anytime soon.

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And that's why I'm here to share some of these insights with you.

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So let's get started.

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The first thing I want to share is that one of the biggest challenges may be that you

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don't understand what is required to really be able to find a research mentor.

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And what do I mean by that?

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You may not understand what investment is needed from the perspective of the faculty

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member.

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And so I don't know, you may have heard people say, don't ever go to someone and say, will

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you be my mentor?

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And that may be the kiss of death.

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And you will certainly rarely find anyone who will say yes to that question, especially

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initially.

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Most of the time people recommend that you just kind of get to know them and think of

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it as like building relationships rather than looking for a mentor.

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And part of that is because being a mentor has a lot of components to it.

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And I'm talking very specifically about being a research mentor because if you've been following

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me for any length of time, you know that I don't believe in the one mentor.

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I believe in networks of mentors.

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And I recognize that there is not one one-size-fits-all mentor.

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But I am very specifically focused right now on research mentoring.

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Because when you're looking for research mentoring, you're seeing I lack a set of skills that

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are needed to grow a research program.

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And I'm looking to fill those skills.

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Now that's what I mean by understanding.

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Because sometimes what people are coming to me right now that I'm a research mentor, when

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I was going and looking for research mentors, what I was thinking was, I'm looking for a

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publication or two.

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And you know, I'd love to learn the skills and all of that, but I'm just really looking

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for a publication or two.

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That's how I was looking at it.

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And what I didn't realize is that research mentors, especially those who have research

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programs, whether they're thriving research programs or they don't feel like they're thriving,

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they're looking for a body of work.

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They're creating a body of work.

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And their trajectory really spans over time.

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They're not just looking for one or two publications.

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They're creating a body of work that's going to contribute significantly to the literature.

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And their team helps them achieve that.

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And so when you come along and you don't recognize that they're building something for the long

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haul, hopefully, and you just show up and say, I'm just looking for a paper or two,

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to some extent, you're not understanding the bigger enterprise and what's really required

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within that mentor's program.

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And so that mentor is probably looking for funding, always looking for funding to fund

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the team.

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That mentor has a body of work that's already been established.

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Another body of work that maybe is new and currently being established.

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And maybe one body of work that may be being phased out.

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And so research mentors are typically long-term thinkers.

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And they're thinking about, okay, how do we wrap up projects we have currently?

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How do we open up new doors to investigation?

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And how do we look ahead to see what are opportunities that we can take advantage of as funders are

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making decisions about what they fund?

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Those kinds of things.

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So there's a lot of thought going to the research mentor's mind.

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And if you show up and you don't have an understanding of what the ecosystem looks like, who else

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is within the program?

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What are their needs within the program?

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So you're just coming from the perspective of, this is what I need.

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And not really thinking about what do they need in their program?

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How do you fit?

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How might you fill a gap?

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Then you might struggle.

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You might meet with a lot of people who say, great, good luck in your search.

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And they don't say, I will be your research mentor.

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Will you join my program?

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Now how do you manage that?

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So one way you manage that is by recognizing that they're building something.

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And so when you come to the conversation, don't start with, I need, don't start with

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you, start with them.

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Say tell me about your program and tell me what are your priorities?

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What are your program priorities?

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What are your big projects that you're working on?

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What do you see changing in your research program down the line?

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How do you see an early career faculty member fitting into that?

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Where are some spaces in which you feel like an early career faculty member may sit?

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Do you see that that's a little bit of a different conversation than I'm looking for a mentor,

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I need publications, I need?

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At the end of the day, you're kind of still saying the same things, but now you're focused

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more on the mentor and what they need.

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And the reason you want to do that is because it's their program.

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And I'm not saying that to say, oh, you have to flex to who they are or what they're doing.

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But I'm saying you need to understand if this is the right environment for you, because

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you, even though you are looking for a research mentor, you are choosing, not a desperate

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person.

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You're not just trying to get any research done and just say, Hey, I checked it off my

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box, you're not looking for just any experience, you're looking for a place where you can grow

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your skills as a researcher and establish yourself so that you can go on to lead your

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own research program.

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So you are looking for a specific set of skills and a specific environment that can support

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you.

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Red flags, you send them an email, they don't respond for three weeks, or you set up a meeting

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and they cancel three or four times.

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You know, and these are the things that you start to look at to make decisions.

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You don't say, Oh, well, you know, I desperately need a role.

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So let's just ignore all of that.

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You ask yourself, is this an environment in which I will thrive?

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So number one is not understanding what's required.

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And part of that is framing the conversation in terms of the mentor and their needs so

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that you understand if this is the right person to contribute to your research development.

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And if their lab environment is also the ideal environment to help support you.

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Remember, although the conversation is not about you, you want to know about them so

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that you can make the decision as to whether it's an environment that will support you

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or not.

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Okay.

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Now, the second thing is not recognizing your skill level.

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So I call this one actually minimal research skills.

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Now if you're a clinician, if you're an MD or MBBS, one of those clinical focused degrees,

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your training was about clinical medicine.

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How do you take care of a patient?

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How do you do right by the patient?

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How do you recognize a sick patient?

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How do you prevent disease?

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How do you help them manage disease?

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Very focused on the clinical aspect of medicine, which is great.

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That's exactly what you came to do.

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It's a very hard thing to do.

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But what you have to recognize is when you now say, well, I'm looking for research mentorship,

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what you don't bring is all the skills that would really help you contribute significantly

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to their research program.

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So in a way you're showing up as like a needy person saying, well, I have no skills and

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I want to be a research program and I have no research skills.

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And let's say, you know, if you are an MD, you probably do have a little bit of research

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training, right?

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You maybe did some pipetting as part of somebody's lab when you were in undergrad trying to get

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into med school.

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You've done a thing or two, you know how to write.

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Maybe you've written a manuscript or two.

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So I think what I'm saying here is recognizing your skills gap.

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What do you have?

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What have you done?

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Maybe in a former life, you are a lab technician.

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You're like, I have a lot of these lab technician skills.

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In fact, I've helped on this.

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I've done that.

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I've done this.

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Great.

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If you have skills, you want to talk up your skills because otherwise there is the assumption

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and usually right that MDs or MD trained individuals are mostly skilled in clinical training.

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And yeah, they can understand research to some extent, but they don't have the skills

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that can help a program get off the ground.

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So for somebody who's looking at you as a potential contributor to their research program,

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they're looking to see, well, how many skills do you already come with?

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How many am I going to have to train you to do?

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Right.

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That's very important.

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Is there bandwidth to do the training?

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Is there support to do the training?

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And is there time to do the training?

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Are you going to be around long enough to be able to grow from the training and then

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begin to contribute meaningfully?

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Because every research mentor is looking for meaningful contribution to their research

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program.

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They are not looking for people to be part of their research program who don't produce

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anything, right?

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Because it takes time to produce any body of work that's good and that's going to move

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the field forward.

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And they're looking for people who can contribute to the field, to their work so that they can

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contribute to the field.

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And if it turns out that you don't have the skills that they need, then what they have

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to do is decide if it's worth making that investment to give you the skills so that

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finally with the skills, you can now contribute to the research program.

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And that's why number three is important, minimal time commitment.

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So here you are, wonderful MD that you are.

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You've got great clinical training.

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You understand the research enterprise, even if you have minimal research skills.

240
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And you're like, yeah, I'd love to be in your research program.

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And I have about three months for this project.

242
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You know, that changes the equation a lot.

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It's one thing to say, I'm going to commit two to three years to your research program.

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And even though I have zero skills, I'm willing to learn, I learn fast, and I will be able

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to get on my feet and start contributing as best as I can, as soon as I can.

246
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That's a different conversation when you have a three-year investment, as opposed to when

247
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you have three months.

248
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It's like, well, what can you learn in three months?

249
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And in three months, to what extent can you contribute to the program?

250
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So again, think of it like a baby who is absolutely 100% needy and comes to a new parent family,

251
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right?

252
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And you're like, I'm going to leave you in three years.

253
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You're not going to be able to contribute anything between now and the three-year period.

254
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In essence, you are literally not a contributing member.

255
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Your parents, so to speak, are investing as much as they can.

256
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You're not really bringing any output.

257
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But what you're saying is that I want to be in the research program and I'm looking for

258
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a research manuscript, which is great, but most research manuscripts don't arrive in

259
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three months.

260
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Like, if you can even get a draft together in three months, you'd be doing really well,

261
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right?

262
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Depending on how far the research has already gotten by the time you get to this three-month

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period.

264
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But when we factor in submitting to the journal, getting the feedback back, maybe even the

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rejection once or twice and going through other journals and then finally getting revisions

266
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that you can act on and then resubmit and then wait to get the feedback, that's already

267
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five, six, seven months.

268
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And you've just been navigating through the publication process.

269
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You haven't even created anything significant.

270
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So do you understand that it takes a long time?

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And so if you have minimal time commitment and you're saying to a research mentor, please

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invest in me, give me the skills that I need and I have three months for you, you're not

273
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going to get a lot of cash.

274
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:49,300
You're not going to get a lot of traction with that.

275
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That's what I was looking for, traction.

276
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Because it just is not a very great value proposition.

277
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I'm going to invest all this time in you.

278
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You're not going to be able to invest back in my program and then in three months you

279
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want a paper and then you're out?

280
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No, thank you.

281
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Many research mentors are really looking for commitments greater than a year.

282
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And really I'm thinking about two years.

283
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I've heard people consistently say, I need two years of your commitment.

284
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And it's too a magic number, not necessarily.

285
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It's that it really takes time to build research skills.

286
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And most people are sharp, they're bright, they can learn really quickly.

287
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But you're going to want to see the fruit of your labor turn around to be an investment

288
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:33,900
in the program and then to have work come out of your investment.

289
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And so I think two years is a fair window.

290
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One year probably would be minimal.

291
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I think one and a half to two years is at least important in terms of actually gaining

292
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skills to be useful and then putting those skills to use.

293
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So minimal time commitment may be one reason why you're struggling to find a research mentor.

294
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Number four is short-term thinking.

295
00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:57,380
And that goes back to the minimal time commitment issue, but it's bigger than that.

296
00:16:57,380 --> 00:17:00,180
It's when you're like, I'm just here for publications.

297
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I just need a grant.

298
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And so I'll be in your program until I get the grant.

299
00:17:04,580 --> 00:17:06,220
It's kind of short-term thinking.

300
00:17:06,220 --> 00:17:10,780
I mean, in general, everybody knows that you're not going to be in one person's research program

301
00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:12,580
forever and ever and ever.

302
00:17:12,580 --> 00:17:13,580
Amen.

303
00:17:13,580 --> 00:17:16,660
You're there to learn and then to move on to something else.

304
00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:19,300
You're there to grow, you're there to expand.

305
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:23,460
No one should put you in a box and you should not allow yourself to be put in a box as well.

306
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:28,060
And short-term thinking is just, I'm just here for this product.

307
00:17:28,060 --> 00:17:32,340
And I will say that I've been guilty of that because I didn't understand.

308
00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:35,820
I just wanted to come get what I needed and say goodbye.

309
00:17:35,820 --> 00:17:40,020
But the mentor is looking to see, well, how will my research program benefit?

310
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:44,500
So what are some ways that the research program can benefit so that you benefit as well, right?

311
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:46,240
It doesn't have to be win-lose.

312
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It should be win-win.

313
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:50,300
So here you are and your goal is a grant.

314
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:51,300
Great.

315
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:52,300
You should achieve that goal.

316
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:55,620
But in the process, how will you contribute to the program?

317
00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:59,220
How will you train other people with the skills that you're learning so quickly?

318
00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:03,780
How will you contribute in a way that allows great papers to come out of the lab?

319
00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:07,560
What are you going to do that's also going to help the program succeed while you're getting

320
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,780
your needs met?

321
00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:12,980
So a win-win at the end is you getting your needs met, they getting their needs met as

322
00:18:12,980 --> 00:18:13,980
well.

323
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:16,580
You don't know what those needs are until you ask.

324
00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:20,300
But many mentees, like children, are very focused on themselves.

325
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:21,300
This is what I need.

326
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:22,300
This is what I need.

327
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:27,260
And they're not asking, hey, research mentor, what do you need and how do I fit into that?

328
00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:32,140
And so short-term thinking of just being there for what you want can limit your ability to

329
00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:36,980
find a research mentor who does not see you really contributing meaningfully to their

330
00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:37,980
program.

331
00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:41,660
And for that reason, they decide to maybe go with somebody else.

332
00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:42,660
Okay.

333
00:18:42,660 --> 00:18:44,660
So that was short-term thinking.

334
00:18:44,660 --> 00:18:47,780
Number five is unclear mentoring expectations.

335
00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:50,720
And I really do mean that term unclear.

336
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,180
You're not sure what you want.

337
00:18:52,180 --> 00:18:57,740
Now, remember, I think it's really important that you have more than one mentor because

338
00:18:57,740 --> 00:18:59,460
you've got a lot to learn.

339
00:18:59,460 --> 00:19:04,460
For someone who, and I'm talking to clinicians here, has barely really had much by way of

340
00:19:04,460 --> 00:19:09,860
research experience, you need a lot of research experience and you don't have it and it's

341
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:12,300
okay, you're going to get it.

342
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:15,620
But you want to be very clear what you're getting from this mentor and why this mentor

343
00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:18,420
is the person to give you what you need.

344
00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:21,180
What is this mentor doing for you that you cannot get elsewhere?

345
00:19:21,180 --> 00:19:23,460
Really important because you need a lot of things.

346
00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:26,980
If you're a clinician who's just new to the research enterprise, you got to learn to write

347
00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:28,980
grants because it's not something you've done very much.

348
00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:32,980
You got to learn to write manuscripts and maybe you've written a scientific manuscript

349
00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:34,100
or two.

350
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:35,580
Some people have written a lot more.

351
00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:36,580
Good for you.

352
00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:39,300
But many of us don't have that skill set.

353
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,820
We've written case reports, we've written clinically focused manuscripts, but not research

354
00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:47,720
oriented manuscripts or manuscripts that really converts with the scientific literature.

355
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,040
And so that's the skill that needs to be built.

356
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,600
And then you're looking for skills in identifying funding opportunities or identifying a good

357
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:59,980
match between your research question or your research project and or your research program

358
00:19:59,980 --> 00:20:03,180
and what the funders want to fund.

359
00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:06,820
Or even the skill of being able to ask a research question.

360
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:08,260
I mean, that is a skill.

361
00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:12,700
It takes time to be able to really focus it down, to be able to generate hypotheses that

362
00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:14,140
you can test.

363
00:20:14,140 --> 00:20:15,620
That is a skill.

364
00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:18,580
What is this mentor going to do for you?

365
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:22,780
And what can you get from someone else that this mentor will not necessarily give you?

366
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:27,380
And so some people come into the mentoring relationship, they have no clarity around

367
00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:29,300
what they actually need.

368
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:30,300
They're just like, mentor me.

369
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:31,660
And it's like, mentor you in what?

370
00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:34,720
Well, in research, but in what aspect of research?

371
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,300
And so part of your being savvy is to say, well, what are my gaps?

372
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:40,300
What are my skills gaps?

373
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:42,300
What am I going to need from this mentor?

374
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,780
Why this mentor is compared to someone else?

375
00:20:44,780 --> 00:20:48,220
So if you're like, well, you're the only mentor in the division, it's a bad answer.

376
00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:50,100
Wrong answer.

377
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:53,340
Because if they're the only mentor in the division, guess what?

378
00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:56,300
Everybody and their brother and sister want them to be their mentor.

379
00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:00,220
And so on the good side of that is that, well, they have a lot to choose from.

380
00:21:00,220 --> 00:21:05,820
But on the bad side of that is that, wow, they're very overwhelmed by requests for mentoring.

381
00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:10,020
And so if you are not clear what this person can do for you and why they're the right mentor

382
00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:14,740
compared to a different mentor, then you don't have enough specificity to really get what

383
00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:15,740
you need.

384
00:21:15,740 --> 00:21:21,460
And then you go in there and you're just expecting, it's not clear what you're expecting.

385
00:21:21,460 --> 00:21:25,340
And whatever they give to you, you're not satisfied because you don't have an expectation

386
00:21:25,340 --> 00:21:26,620
that they can actually fill.

387
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:31,740
But if you're very clear on your expectation for that mentoring experience, like I want

388
00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:35,100
to know how to write grants because you are awesome at writing grants.

389
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:36,100
Great.

390
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:37,100
Case settled.

391
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,340
This is very focused on writing grants.

392
00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:43,540
Bring your ideas, help them in different ways, and they help you write grants.

393
00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:45,420
You know that's a very specific focus.

394
00:21:45,420 --> 00:21:49,540
Now, one of the things you want to ask is, is this the best person to help me on my grant

395
00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:50,540
writing?

396
00:21:50,540 --> 00:21:55,900
So this may be the best person to help you with this scientific method.

397
00:21:55,900 --> 00:22:00,280
And maybe you go to a grant writing program at your institution to learn grant writing.

398
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:06,020
So be clear about what this particular research mentoring experience will give you.

399
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:10,540
Be very clear about it, what your goal is, so that when you get it, you know that you're

400
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:11,540
getting it.

401
00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:16,620
You're getting it, you know that as well, and you can help to manage expectations.

402
00:22:16,620 --> 00:22:20,220
Don't be like me where I was just like mentor me, and I was like, I don't know if I'm getting

403
00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:22,980
everything I'm supposed to because I had no clue.

404
00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:28,980
Be clear about what it is you need, and then be clear about what this mentor will do for

405
00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:35,140
you and make sure that you are able to communicate that need and why they're the specific mentor

406
00:22:35,140 --> 00:22:39,740
to do that because it helps them to recognize that they have a very specific role that they

407
00:22:39,740 --> 00:22:43,300
can play in your research development.

408
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:48,100
And that's very satisfying, and you know this is what they need, this is what I can supply,

409
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:49,780
it's a great relationship.

410
00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:54,100
Here's the thing, you'll get a lot else beyond just what it is that you're focused on.

411
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:59,060
Okay, they may just be the research methodologists, but they also write grants, so they've got

412
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:00,060
that skill.

413
00:23:00,060 --> 00:23:03,700
And along the lines of you've been focused on a certain thing, you'll get other things

414
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:04,700
as well.

415
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:08,540
So it's really important for you to be specific, knowing that you're going to get other general

416
00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:13,900
things but making sure that what you really want is what they can provide for you and

417
00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:17,660
helping you communicate that expectation so that they can give it to you.

418
00:23:17,660 --> 00:23:20,700
Okay, number six is that your focus is too narrow.

419
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:21,700
What do I mean by that?

420
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,260
Okay, so you're a hematologist like me.

421
00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:27,460
You're just looking at your division across the hematologist and you're like, well, no

422
00:23:27,460 --> 00:23:31,420
research mentors here, or oh, there's only one.

423
00:23:31,420 --> 00:23:35,640
And I just want to say that the world is your oyster, and you don't have to look only within

424
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:36,840
your division.

425
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,140
If you are at an academic medical center, there are many people doing research.

426
00:23:42,140 --> 00:23:47,780
Some are MDs, some are MD-PhDs, some are PhD only, but all of them are potential mentors

427
00:23:47,780 --> 00:23:48,780
for you.

428
00:23:48,780 --> 00:23:52,860
Again, you don't need the one mentor who looks like you, who knows clinical things like you

429
00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:53,860
do.

430
00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:54,860
It's like, what do you need?

431
00:23:54,860 --> 00:23:59,500
And who are the mentors who may be able to be best suited to serve you in that way as

432
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:00,860
you serve them as well?

433
00:24:00,860 --> 00:24:04,420
And so if your focus is too narrow, where you're just looking at your division and you're

434
00:24:04,420 --> 00:24:08,860
looking across the seven faculty, or maybe you have a bigger division, you have 70 faculty,

435
00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:11,460
and you're like, oh, there's just two people.

436
00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:13,940
I guess I'm stuck with these two.

437
00:24:13,940 --> 00:24:15,020
You're not stuck.

438
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:19,380
You got a big, big environment in your academic institution.

439
00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:25,020
If your academic institution is bent on scholarship, they're going to be people who are going to

440
00:24:25,020 --> 00:24:29,840
be able to facilitate that scholarship, look around and say, well, what can this person

441
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,840
give me?

442
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,460
What can this person give me?

443
00:24:32,460 --> 00:24:35,980
And realize that what you need, you can get from more than one source.

444
00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:40,420
Don't focus only within your own department or only within your own school.

445
00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:41,740
Think broadly.

446
00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:46,540
Look at NIH Reporter to see what people are publishing on.

447
00:24:46,540 --> 00:24:50,740
What do you want to do for the people who are already doing it?

448
00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:56,180
And where can you find them beyond just your division or your department or your immediate

449
00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:57,180
school?

450
00:24:57,180 --> 00:25:00,100
And I wouldn't stop at just your institution.

451
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:04,220
I would look beyond the institution to say, who are the people around the country who

452
00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:07,820
are doing this work, who I would love to partner with?

453
00:25:07,820 --> 00:25:12,860
Now, life is always easier when you're in close proximity with somebody who's mentoring

454
00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:13,860
you.

455
00:25:13,860 --> 00:25:17,860
You don't have to be in close proximity to allow mentoring relationships to work.

456
00:25:17,860 --> 00:25:22,420
You can have mentoring relationships across geographic boundaries, across international

457
00:25:22,420 --> 00:25:23,740
boundaries.

458
00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:29,060
You can get what you need from wherever you want as long as you are open-minded and thinking

459
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:33,420
beyond just the narrow confines of the people who immediately surround you.

460
00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:35,220
So think broadly.

461
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:36,700
Don't narrow your focus.

462
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:40,460
Think about every possible person who might be able to support you and think about how

463
00:25:40,460 --> 00:25:45,460
do you open the door to a conversation that doesn't start with, please be my mentor, right?

464
00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:50,660
A conversation that allows you to begin to form a relationship that's going to be beneficial

465
00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:52,740
to both of you in the long term.

466
00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:54,740
Remember, always think, win-win.

467
00:25:54,740 --> 00:25:59,820
Number seven is maybe you finally find the mentor and you have a conversation with them

468
00:25:59,820 --> 00:26:03,420
and they're like, yeah, great, see you later.

469
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:07,380
Sometimes it's because your interests are divergent and that's okay.

470
00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:12,180
So you've got to recognize that even when you find the greatest of mentors and you feel

471
00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:15,580
like you have a great connection and you feel like they absolutely should be your mentor

472
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:19,040
and they say no, thank you, it's not personal.

473
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,700
It's not because of you.

474
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:24,860
It's because there's probably differences that may not be explicit.

475
00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:26,260
Now if you don't know, ask.

476
00:26:26,260 --> 00:26:32,700
Say okay, I think we seem to be a great fit and it sounds like we have a great rapport

477
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:37,260
and I'm curious to know why you don't think this may make sense for you.

478
00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:41,400
And it may be that it's not the right time for them because it really does take some

479
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,260
intensive mentoring to be able to get an early career person on their feet and up and running

480
00:26:47,260 --> 00:26:48,540
independently.

481
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:51,140
And it takes time and bandwidth and energy and effort.

482
00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:54,700
And if they don't have that bandwidth, they don't want to make that investment because

483
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:57,820
then you'll just find yourself sitting on the sidelines wondering where did my mentor

484
00:26:57,820 --> 00:27:00,100
go and feeling abandoned.

485
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:03,780
So what you want to do is you want to make sure that they actually have time for you

486
00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:05,260
and actually have space for you.

487
00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:08,020
They have a project that you can work on.

488
00:27:08,020 --> 00:27:13,860
And it may be that you're really interested in, let's say you're interested in the diversity

489
00:27:13,860 --> 00:27:14,860
bonus, right?

490
00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:20,060
And that's really what you want to study and they really end up in a basic science lab

491
00:27:20,060 --> 00:27:21,740
and they're only interested in Drosophila.

492
00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:26,380
Now it's a little bit divergent and yes, they could mentor you in grant writing, they could

493
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:30,800
mentor you in your career, but in the research, you're not aligned.

494
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,960
And so the divergent interests, the lack of alignment sometimes will affect your ability

495
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,540
to have that person be a research mentor.

496
00:27:38,540 --> 00:27:39,540
Okay.

497
00:27:39,540 --> 00:27:41,900
So I said seven things I'm going to just recap.

498
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:46,780
One, understanding what's required, not being too you focused and not thinking about what

499
00:27:46,780 --> 00:27:47,780
they need.

500
00:27:47,780 --> 00:27:49,740
Two, minimal research skills.

501
00:27:49,740 --> 00:27:51,340
Three, minimal time commitment.

502
00:27:51,340 --> 00:27:52,620
Four, short-term thinking.

503
00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:54,980
Five, unclear mentoring expectations.

504
00:27:54,980 --> 00:27:59,980
Six, narrow focus and seven, divergent interests.

505
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:04,740
So those are seven reasons why you may be struggling to find a research mentor.

506
00:28:04,740 --> 00:28:10,960
Remember that this is about you, but it's also you finding a space to fit in somebody

507
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,460
else's program, really somebody else's life in some way.

508
00:28:15,460 --> 00:28:20,060
And it's like, how do you frame the conversation so that you're clear where you can fit and

509
00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:22,700
you help them see that value proposition?

510
00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:26,900
And I want to say look far and wide, don't limit yourself.

511
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:32,740
The sky is no limit even for you as you want to lead a research program.

512
00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:34,900
So I hope that this has been helpful to you.

513
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,340
As always, if you're looking for a coach who can support you as you make the transition

514
00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:42,060
from clinician to scientist, I'd love to be there for you.

515
00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:47,900
Let me know and send me a direct message on LinkedIn and I'd be happy to reach out and

516
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:48,900
support you.

517
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:49,900
Okay.

518
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:51,700
It's been a pleasure to talk with you today.

519
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:53,260
Thank you so much for tuning in.

520
00:28:53,260 --> 00:28:57,980
I look forward to talking with you again next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast.

521
00:28:57,980 --> 00:29:05,740
Thank you for listening.

522
00:29:05,740 --> 00:29:11,140
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

523
00:29:11,140 --> 00:29:16,540
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

524
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:17,900
have a mentor.

525
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:24,000
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

526
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,740
Someone else needs to hear it.

527
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:29,780
So take a minute right now and share it.

528
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:35,260
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

529
00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:41,220
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.